interupted forestock molding

[Clint]

I have always had trouble with fore stock moldings where they move past the ram rod pipes. The wood is often too close and ends up showing too much pipe. I decided to interupt the molding on this rifle and stop the cove cut just on either side of the pipes. That left a blank spot to punctuate and I used a line of circles to cover the area.                                                    the molding is stopped on both sides of the pipe

  the circles  are cut with a small gouge                  I used a piece of metal with equally spaced holes to locate the carved circles. The circles are domed and the background is blended in close to the pipe.

[Not English]

I usually remove the ramrod thimble when putting in moldings and can then gauge how much wood is left. It looks like you as well. How does the interrupted molding affect the proportions of the forestock as perceived by the eye. I think an uninterrupted molding tends to make the forestock appear more  slender. Any photos of a whole forestock?

[L. Akers]

Here is most of a forestock with a different take on the interruption.

[flehto]

Because the  OD of the  RR pipe is larger  than the RR groove and a narrower flat on the wood alongside the RR groove is preferred {.03}  ,  the wood on both sides of the pipe results in a "feathered edge" after  inletting. So, the  "feathered edges"  are filed down to produce a narrow flat which is approx. .02 below the top of the wood alongside the RR groove and is   hardly noticeable from the side. Having the top of the wood alongside the RR groove  below center of the RR pipe also helps. ... only a 3rd of the RR pipe dia is inleetted. Don't usually take photos of RR pipes, but shown is an entry pipe and the "step" at the forward end of the pipe is visible......Fred

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I don't think that is the right approach...the moulding should continue unbroken, in my opinion.  On my Kuntz tribute rifle, I followed Jacob's lead and cut a moulding line that is interrupted by the football shaped escutcheons that surround the barrel pins.  The judges at Dixon's Fayre, in their infinite wisdom told me that this was a serious faux pas...the lines should never be interrupted.  They docked me points, which rankles me even now.
So here is a rifle with a cove moulding along the rod channel that is un-interrupted.  This rifle has rod pipes filed from 1/16" thick brass sheet metal pipes, yet the moulding line is continuous.  The rod is 5/16" here.

[flinchrocket]

I don't think it's right to dock points if you have an original to back up your work. That just seems wrong, the idea is to emulate originals, not make something different.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I assumed incorrectly that Dixon's judges would be familiar with iconic rifles from famous makers, so didn't have any documentation to back up my rifle.  As another example, two years prior I submitted a Herman Rupp styled rifle, and was docked points for closing in the end of the nose cap.  Their advice was to study more originals.  The original I was 'copying' has a closed in nose cap.  My rifles did well in the contests, but I was disappointed to lose points because of a judge's ignorance and perhaps, arrogance.

[flinchrocket]

In my estimation, if you took a bench copy and they deducted points, there is something seriously wrong with their system.

Another problem is many originals have had restoration on the forearm,so it's sometimes difficult to know how it appeared when first built.

[P.Bigham]

I have no comment on stock moundings but after Taylor’s comment on the Dixon’s Judges I have to comment. I appreciate any criticism given. And I believe they are volunteers giving of their time. But I have to agree with Taylor. They seem to have a narrow scope as to what is correct.  Iam sure it would be hard to judge all the different schools, separate American longrifles from Europe’s work. I went there x 2. Once with a friend and 2nd time to enter 2 rifles and a knife I did better than I expected.  I enjoyed it.  If out of bounds please remove. 

[rich pierce]

The judging at Dixon’s has changed a fair bit over the last several years. They heard and listened. But I agree there was a period where it seemed there were general architectural rules they applied without considering the variations in originals.

They’ve also gone to a “plus system”, I believe. Added features well done merit a better review. There was a time when a schimmel was most likely to win because the entry could not get dinged for patchbox or carving or engraving that was felt to be less than exemplary.

A new attendee favorite is the new “meet the judges” or “meet a master” appointment where a completed gun or a work in progress can be brought for review and advice. Those were fully booked. Dave Person may comment.

[Daryl]

LOL- I can laugh at it now, but at Dixon's I believe I was more --- ahhh  --- peeved than Taylor was. In his wisdom, he said to me "just let it go, Daryl, it's all right, so be it".
I was champing at the bit for a fight.

[Craig Wilcox]

Taylor, I recall when they docked you for that closed end on the muzzle cap.  I felt like screaming at the judge to go look at the original!  It was definitely closed when Rupp made the piece.

But, judges are human, and make mistakes just as I do.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I've seen two Peter Angstadt rifles upon which he cut a fluted molding down the forearm then slapped a couple of large forearm inlays right over top of and into the molding; entirely original.  Imagine how THAT would have been received in judging!

[Jim Kibler]

Or how about some of the thumb piece inlays that are plopped right down on top of carving.  Some of these seem to be first work as well.

[oldtravler61]

  Judges are human...but a few years ago a friend of mine. Thought he would inter a Soddy- Daisy style rifle for consideration/ judging. He was shocked that none of the judges really had no knowledge about it.  In my humble opinion it was an exact copy of an original... Needless to say it didn't do wellchances ...
But that's the chances yeah take... None the less it is a great event an that's what we were there for... Oldtravler