silver solder

[yip]

 whats the best silver solder you guys use. ive been using STAY BRITE, just wondering

[P.W.Berkuta]

I use Stay-Brite  also along with it's flux Stay-Clean. I find it flows very well if you don't burn the flux and it has great holding strength - very easy to use when you follow directions and clean the two surfaces to remove and contaminates .

[canadianml1]

Some times folks refer to silver bearing soft solder as sliver solder. But to be clear the Stay Brite solder I used to solder lugs on a barrel is about 96 % tin and 4% silver. It is correctly referred to as nearly eutectic soft solder. Its liquidus and solidus temperatures are the same at about 430 degrees F. Not hot enough to damage a barrel from its correct use.

True silver solder is mostly silver and is referred to as a hard solder with a melting temperature of about 1100 degrees F............too hot to use on a barrel.

Just saying.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

cdnm1 brings up an important point.  Never use red heat on a barrel, and hard solder (silver) requires red heat.  there are many silver bearing solft solders that can be used safely though.  I use one that is only 2% silver...it's an electrical solder, and it works very nicely with ordinary solder flux to add sights, lugs, under-ribs etc to steel barrels.

[yip]

  i'm planning on making a two piece entry thimble and hope to use that STAY BRITE but hope its the right stuff

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I use hard solder and red heat to make those.  The joint is virtually invisible with hard silver solder, and much stronger.  I am unfamiliar with Stay Brite.

[canadianml1]

Also hard solder (true silver solder) is much stronger than the soft solders thus its use where red heat is not a problem and strength is an issue.

[yip]

  where can a novice find such an product?

[smart dog]

Hi,
 Brownell's  HI-Force 44 is a good low temp silver bearing solder much like Stay Bright.  I use both just because I have both.  With respect to your rear pipe, I don't believe you need to use hi temp silver solder.  I don't think there is enough stress on the tang to warrant the kind of strength used to silver braze bicycle frames together. I solder rear tangs quite a bit and use either Hi Force or Stay Bright.  Certainly, it does depend on your construction design and the more area of overlapping surface the better.

dave

[yip]

  thanks you guys! i think i'll stay with STAY BRITE, all i have is map gas for a heat source .what heat source woulld be good for hard silver solder?

[Acer Saccharum]

This is for Stay-Brite, 95-5, plumber's solder.

Tin both areas with a thin coating of solder before attempting to run solder in between parts.

But I was having trouble getting the solder to spread on steel. More heat just ruined my chances of getting the solder to flow.

A trick I learned from Taylor: Take a bit of steel wool in forceps or pliers, maybe the size of a Q-tip, and load it up with flux. Heat the area on the steel lug until the solder starts to melt. Take the steel wool and scrub the area lightly, and the solder will spread around like a dream come true. While the area is still hot, wipe off all steel wool bits with a clean piece of cotton.

Coat the spot on the barrel and do the same process. Wipe clean. This will leave a shiny bright, ultra thin coating of solder.

Flux the two pieces afresh, add some little bits of solder, hammered flat between the joint. Clamp the two pieces where you want them, and slowly add heat. Suddenly the solder flows, and you see a small bead all the way around the lug. If you don't think the space is filled, you can add more solder.

Above all, and very very important, DON'T EXCEED the temp range of the flux. You'll have to cool everything off, scrub clean, and re-apply flux.



DO NOT use the above for silver braze, low 900F, medium1100F or high 1400F silver solders.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

After my supply of hard silver solder that I"d been given by a saw filer from a pulp/lumber mill, I had to buy it from one of a couple of our local welding supply stores.  The stuff is about 1/16" diameter wire and comes by the inch.  I keep a good sized roll of it on hand in the shop.
Note:  the joint of this solder in brass joining shows up with oxidation as a dark line eventually.  But it is stronger than the parent brass material and will never fail.

[Craig Wilcox]

I use different solders for different jobs.  Stay Brite and High Force 44 are great for low temp jobs.  I use paste solder from Rio Grande when necessary - the paste has the flux mixed with the solder and is easy to use.  They have several temp ranges.

There are three basic rules for soldering:  Cleanliness is mandatory, heat the metal you are soldering, not the solder, and lastly, solder will move toward the heat.

[Jerry V Lape]

Acer how do you determine when you are exceeding the heat range of the flux? 

[flehto]

For all soft soldering I use Swif 95 solder paste and for hi temp silver soldering, 1/16 dia wire is used....don't know the brand, but borax flux works well. A red heat is req'd  for solder flow and the high heat of a Mapp Gas torch is necessary. The 2 pc entry pipe is attached w/ hi temp silver solder.

To lightly clamp a front sight or a bbl lug  to a round bbl or a flat bbl lug to an  octagon bbl for soldering at the waist of a bbl , the clamp bar shown  is used....a parallel clamp is used at the rear flat which is at a slight angle to apply  some force and the "V" notched front end holds the item in place. ....Fred

[yip]

 you guys are a wealth of knowlege

[Craig Wilcox]

Taylor and others - you can get silver solder from any jewelry supply store, or from a local jeweler, come to think.
It is generally sold by the penny weight (dwt) - 20 dwt to a troy ounce (ozt).  It comes in three temp ranges, easy, medium, and hard.
The thin sheet can be cut easily, altho a jeweler has a nifty little punch device to make the chads.  They are generally about 1/32" x 1/16".
In use, one or more of the little pieces are laid on your heat pad.  Used to be asbestos,, don't know what it is now.  Clean and flux your pieces, and fit together.  Heat the joint are to almost soldering temp.  Now, hold something like a scribe in your non-torch hand, and put the flame to the chad - it will form a wee ball.  Pick it up with the pointy part of the scribe, and place along the joint while you heat the work area, and when it reaches the soldering temp, touch the little ball to the edge of the joint.  Do that as much as necessary, and always the solder will creep into the joint, following wherever you heat.  Results in a neat, tidy joint.  Works with gold solder when you go to fix your wife's favorite broach.
Oh - pickle when done, removes the flux.

[Acer Saccharum]

Acer how do you determine when you are exceeding the heat range of the flux?

Jerry, the flux goes black, and the solder will just ball up and roll off the metal.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Here are different types of soft low temp solder and high temp silver braze. In the forefront in the PVC tubes are high temp silver braze of 1/16" and 3/32" diameters one with flux and one with the flux removed. These two require a temp of over 1000 degrees to melt. The two in the rear are low temp soft solder - Stay-Brite on the left and 50/50 lead solder on the right. There is a BIG difference in performance and cost between the two low and high temp  items. You are looking at over $1000 in cost of these items.