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Author Topic: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder  (Read 3277 times)

Offline Huck

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Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« on: August 04, 2020, 12:35:24 AM »
Hello

I inherited this old musket a number of years ago but I don't know any of its background. I have hunted for years with more modern rifles but I know nothing at all about muzzleloaders. I've looked at hundreds of musket photos online but I have never found any like this. There are no markings on it so I don't know who manufactured it, or even what calibre it is. I may have been able to find out more if I had taken it to a gunsmith, but our Canadian gun laws are getting so strange that I would be concerned about it perhaps getting confiscated if I took it out of the house.

This musket may actually be as common as dirt and some of you may be able to identify it at a glance, but I haven't had any luck.so far. Any info that anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.










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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2020, 01:56:00 AM »
 The unusual stock carving looks like it might be Belgian, or possibly French. Either one of those countries of origin usually mark the barrel in one way or another

  Hungry Horse
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2020, 02:08:55 AM »
I suspect it's a smoothbore and as HH says, Belgian in origin.  Guns like this were popular in the last quarter of the 19th C here in the Great White North.  You have nothing to be concerned about, transporting this gun anywhere in your town.  Take it where ever you like but put a trigger lock on it so the local Gendarmarie don't get freaked.  And you need a Possession/Acquisition Licence to own firearms in Canada, even muzzle loaders.  I'm trying desperately not to make this post political, but it is difficult.
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Offline WESTbury

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2020, 02:54:57 AM »
HUCK---Your photos are somewhat dark so I took the liberty and Photoshopped two of them to show more detail.



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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2020, 04:40:23 PM »
 Ididn’t realize that shell design was actually a cap box, but I should have, since I own an old Dixie Gun Works shotgun made in Belgium with that same box on it.

  Hungry Horse
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Offline James Wilson Everett

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2020, 06:52:03 PM »
Have you confirmed that it is unloaded?
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Offline Huck

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2020, 12:02:27 AM »
Thanks to everyone who replied. Great job on the the touched up photos WESTbury; they're much better than the originals. It seems that the general consensus is that this gun may be Belgium made? Has anyone seen another one with this design, or have any idea what company may have distributed them in North America? If the barrel had a mark, where would I look for it HH? Also a good catch on the shell design. I probably never would have thought to try to open it but sure enough, that's what it is. And yes the gun isn't loaded, but certainly a valid question.
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Offline WESTbury

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2020, 02:40:01 AM »
From time to time, Germanic or Swiss style rifles show up on the collector market with elaborate carved stocks. Some of these rifles are, except for the lock and barrel, completely made of wood.
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"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2020, 04:42:35 PM »
 Huck, Belgium started proofing and marking barrels quite early. So, this being a late percussion should have marks somewhere around the breech. Belgium had its own proof house, and actually proofed barrels for some other small countries.

  Hungry Horse
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2020, 04:55:47 PM »
Belgian. I've seen lots of them. It looks to be in pretty good shape. If the bore is good you could bird hunt with it.
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Offline Joey R

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2020, 09:33:11 PM »
It looks like the monkey gun in the for sale section.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2020, 03:02:59 PM »
Quote from: Joey R on August 09, 2020, 09:33:11 PM
It looks like the monkey gun in the for sale section.
The monkey gun is belgian as well.
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2020, 03:18:49 PM »
Quote from: Mike Brooks on August 10, 2020, 03:02:59 PM
Quote from: Joey R on August 09, 2020, 09:33:11 PM
It looks like the monkey gun in the for sale section.
The monkey gun is belgian as well.

Belgian and I remember seeing these at Dixie Gun Works when I worked there in the Summer
of 1958.Scrape all that horrible/grotesqery off and it might be a good looking gun.
Bob Roller
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Offline Huck

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2020, 06:15:48 PM »
Thanks again to everyone for your input. I looked at the picture of the monkey gun and they are somewhat similar. So I removed the barrel and I did find some sort of markings on it. I took pictures of several different ones but they are not so clear. One looks to be a 1H and another is 17.0. I tried to compare some of the markings to a chart of early Belgian markings that I found on line, but didn't have any success. Maybe someone will see something that I'm missing.








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Offline Niall

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2020, 06:44:45 PM »
The 17.0 refers to the caliber or bore size.....17mm/.669 cal/ 16 bore
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 10:24:49 AM by Niall »
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Offline Feltwad

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Re: Help to Identify Old Muzzlelaoder
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2020, 12:51:38 AM »
What you have is a Belgium  proofed continental sporting gun. The carving of stocks was  common in both their shotgun and rifles ,the most common bore in the sxs sporting gun was a 16bore, I have restored several guns of this type most were well made . enclosed image


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