Rifle Weights...15% Makes a Big Difference (as it turns out )

[davec2]

In a recent series of posts on a Colonial Kibler kit rifle that Mike Brooks built ( https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=61017.0 ), the topic of rifle weights came up.  I had never really thought much about that so, being interested in the question Taylor asked about weight, I got out a half dozen of my rifles to weigh them.....something I had never done before.

The Kibler kit I just finished (recent series of posts) is a .50 caliber (~43.5") and it weighs 9 lbs 10 oz.  By contrast, one of the lightest rifles I have is the copy of a Jim Chambers rifle that I did in .36 caliber (42") Rice barrel
 ( https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37186.0 )  Holding it, this one seems very light at 7 lbs 14 oz.  There is only 1 lbs 12 oz difference (~20%) between the two, but I am amazed at how much heavier the .50 Colonial feels even just picking it up !!  As Mike says in his post, "Yup, it's a big gun. No whippy little dainty thing."

And a long while back I built a maple stocked .50 caliber with another 42" Rice barrel  ( https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=34414.0 ) and it weighs in at 8 lbs 3 oz.  Here again, only 1 lbs 7 oz difference but this rifle too also seems much lighter than the Colonial.  Looking at it another way, this rifle is 15% lighter than the Colonial and I am amazed at how much that small difference makes just in holding it for a while, let alone carrying it around in the woods all day.

[canadianml1]

Haven't weighed my 40 cal. Jim Kibler SMR until now....6.4 pounds. My 20 ga. JC Penn fowler is 7.2 pounds. My 20 ga. French Type D Trade gun (fusil de traite) with a 42 inch barrel is 7.8 pounds.

[Bob McBride]

I’m a big ol ignernt country boy living on corn bread and beans so my 6lb 20 bore or my 9 lb AM feels about the same. A 10lb-er, though, wouldn’t be any fun at all.

[EC121]

Dave:  That is why I jumped on the .58 when Wayne said Mike had it.  The Brooks Colonial in .58 weighs 8lb. 6oz. on my digital bath scale.  Seems like I notice the weight more carrying it than shooting it.  However, a 20-30rd. match might be a chore.

Brice the polisher(inside joke  )

[Mike Brooks]

My Lion & Lamb gun weighs 9 3/4 lbs It has a .54 41" Rice swamped "EDL" barrel that is 1 3/16" at the breech. It has the heaviest densest piece of maple I have ever worked And is really heavy. The brass box probably weighs close to a pound and the buttplate is rather thick as well. "Normally" since shoulder surgery I can only handle a gun that goes 7 to 7 1/2 LBS. BUT this 9 3/4 pound rifle is very comfortable for me to hold. Due I believe to where the weight is distributed.. The balance point is midway between the lock panels and the rear pipe. I have handle 8lb rifles I can't hold due to the weight out front  in the barrel

[RJD-VT]

Weight is everything to me. Guns over 8 pounds are “bench only” or at the least, load it, shoot it then set it down and load it again. Age and injury have taken a big toll. Unfortunately the only “long” guns I can hunt with are of the unmentionable varieties that weigh under 6 pounds. And that must include some sort of optic gizmo on rifles to allow me to aim with old eyes.
To Master Will and all similar aged members: enjoy being young, it won’t last forever.

I have been thinking about a fowler in recent years. Since I mostly hunt small game that might be just the ticket.

[davec2]

For fun, I weighed the following as well:

4 gage, brass barrel blunderbuss     10 lbs 2 oz

Brown Bess    8 lbs 14 oz

Ferguson      9 lbs 2 oz

I think I need to start building .36 cal rifles with 24 inch barrels and balsa wood stocks !!!

[Bob McBride]

Got us all getting the scales out...

My DuPrey Soddy .36 with a 39” 3/4” straight barrel weights 6 lbs 9 and is the handiest rifle I own.

[hanshi]

The "balance point" location can greatly affect the perceived weight of a shoulder arm.  While my .54 X 33" weighs about 9-3/4 lbs, it feels, if anything, a bit heavier.  But the .36 X 38" goes only a few ounces over 5 lbs.  Both my .50 X 38" and .45 X 36" weigh the same (about 6 lbs) but the .50 has a Rice "B" wgt barrel and the .45 is a straight 13/16".  The .40 X 38" with a "B" wgt barrel is 8 lbs which is close to a pound heavier than my .62 smoothbore.

Gun "A" can feel heavier than gun "B", depending on the build, when both are the same weight.  If a gun "fits" you it won't feel as heavy as it actually is.  All my weights were taken on bathroom scales and I consider them approximate.

[Bob McBride]

The "balance point" location can greatly affect the perceived weight of a shoulder arm.  While my .54 X 33" weighs about 9-3/4 lbs, it feels, if anything, a bit heavier.  But the .36 X 38" goes only a few ounces over 5 lbs.  Both my .50 X 38" and .45 X 36" weigh the same (about 6 lbs) but the .50 has a Rice "B" wgt barrel and the .45 is a straight 13/16".  The .40 X 38" with a "B" wgt barrel is 8 lbs which is close to a pound heavier than my .62 smoothbore.

Gun "A" can feel heavier than gun "B", depending on the build, when both are the same weight.  If a gun "fits" you it won't feel as heavy as it actually is.  All my weights were taken on bathroom scales and I consider them approximate.

Absolutely. A heavy gun balancing just behind the entry pipe as Mike describes works really well. I like my fore grip to have my index finger on the rear of the pipe and so long as the balance point is in my palm or at least in setting on my first two fingers I usually find it a great offhand gun, regardless of it being 8-9 lbs.

[Craig Wilcox]

I'm waiting for the new Titanium barrels weighing 12-15 oz each.

[Bob McBride]

I'm waiting for the new Titanium barrels weighing 12-15 oz each.

...and don't forget the 3d printed faux maple with 1000 striped per inch!

[Bill Raby]

For fun, I weighed the following as well:

4 gage, brass barrel blunderbuss     10 lbs 2 oz

Brown Bess    8 lbs 14 oz

Ferguson      9 lbs 2 oz

I think I need to start building .36 cal rifles with 24 inch barrels and balsa wood stocks !!!

The barrel alone is over 12 pounds on the 4 bore I am working on. It is going to be a heavy one.

[Bob McBride]

For fun, I weighed the following as well:

4 gage, brass barrel blunderbuss     10 lbs 2 oz

Brown Bess    8 lbs 14 oz

Ferguson      9 lbs 2 oz

I think I need to start building .36 cal rifles with 24 inch barrels and balsa wood stocks !!!

The barrel alone is over 12 pounds on the 4 bore I am working on. It is going to be a heavy one.

Yikes.

[DGB]

This weight discussion amplifies the importance of the balance point while holding the rifle in offhand position.
With a balance point ahead of your forward supporting arm, the perceived weight  held by that arm will be greater than the total weight of the gun....
remember the fulcrum point lever etc., that your science teacher talked about??

Regards,
DGB

[WadePatton]

I'm of the distribution/balance is most important mindset these days. Static weights aren't a concern-within reason for the bore and use of course.

Interesting to hear the angles others take on it.

[Dennis Glazener]

FYI I split the last few replies off from this thread due to discussions of modern arms. You all know or should know that is against the rules of ALR. For those that don't know I suggest your read our rules here https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=42270.0

Some of you think we are to heavy handed as moderators but this thread is an example of what happens when we don't step in. One person gets off track onto modern arms and others proceed to follow. In this case 8 posts were removed.

Please follow our rules.
Dennis

[alacran]

Sorry Dennis but when a bunch of veterans start talking about their youth, they are hard to stop.
Any way the subject being weight of rifles. I shot the August postal match yesterday. I used two different rifles. The first rifle I  used is my flintlock target rifle. It weighs 12.25 pounds. It is a straight barreled .45 one inch across the flats. Most of the weight is forward.
This is a rifle that to do well with a person has to shoot it regularly.  It is a beast.
The other rifle is a Hawken with GRRW barrel also one inch across the flats. It weighs 10.5 lbs. It is also weight forward.
You can definitely tell the different in the weights, when you go from one to the other.
For me I like rifles with the weight being forward  they hold better. A lot has to do with ones offhand shooting technique.

[canadianml1]

"I’m a big ol ignernt country boy living on corn bread and beans so my 6lb 20 bore or my 9 lb AM feels about the same. A 10lb-er, though, wouldn’t be any fun at all."

Hey Bob, I thought you lived on double bacon cheeseburgers...................................maybe I got it wrong!!

Grant

[hanshi]

My perfect (offhand) target rifle would have a straight barrel long enough to be quite muzzleheavy.  Maybe not the best thing to carry around in the bush but it can't be surpassed for offhand targets. 

Being front heavy once the sights align on the target movement is so slow (with a heavy barrel) that a shooter has more time for trigger control.  Also a front heavy rifle just seems to hold almost "rock steady".  I used to have one like that but eventually had to sell it as the arthritis in my hands got worse.