Scottish Deer Rifle

[Feltwad]

Came across this rifle a couple of months ago by William Landell of Glasgow. It is a 14 bore octangle Damascus twist built in 1840  4 grove rifling barrel and its length is 39 inches   with a 3 position sight of which 2 are leaf sight  and also a  set trigger .I am sure this gun was built for stalking deer on the Scottish hills  but with its 39 inch octangle barrel the gun is muzzle heavy  but fitted has part of the barrel at the muzzle end is a fitting  similar to a bayonet fitting which I believe is for fitting a stick support when sighting in too shooting the quarry . I have been restoring and shooting muzzle loaders  for many decades and it is the first time I have come across this device  maybe some members have.
Feltwad

[Molly]

Now that IS interesting!  Offset ram rod?  Damascus?  Is it real Damascus or just a Damascus finish?  Looks real.  I'd put that one in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" category.

[Feltwad]

Yes it is defiantly Damas twist
Feltwad

[WESTbury]

Now that IS interesting!  Offset ram rod? 

I do not think the ramrod is offset. The rib, to which it is fitted, looks to be squarely on the bottom flat of the barrel.

[Feltwad]

That is correct
Feltwad

[Avlrc]

Now that IS interesting!  Offset ram rod?  Damascus?  Is it real Damascus or just a Damascus finish?  Looks real.  I'd put that one in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" category.

I thought it was offset as well,  kind of an optical illusion.  Neat Rifle.

[WESTbury]

It is a great looking rifle. The device, with the dovetail flat, fitted to the side of the barrel is unique as you pointed out. It was not put there just for the $#*! of it.

[Pukka Bundook]

Very good to see you put this rifle up for viewing here old Pal,
I'm hoping you get some answers.
It's a lovely stub twist barrel, and well made rifle.  I
I've not seen anything quite like this bracket.   Bayonet lugs yes, but this is not one of those.
Unusually long, so a support makes sense.

Fingers crossed someone here will know something!

Are you still hammering woodies and crows?

Richard.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I think it is a handle so the servant can carry the muzzle.    The notch and length of it suggests something slid over the round rod with a spring loaded catch to slip into the notch.  If it was just for attaching a rest, I doubt it would need to be so robust.

dave

[WESTbury]

Perhaps it is used to mount a bullet starter, given the orientation of the dovetail flat.

[Feltwad]

Very good to see you put this rifle up for viewing here old Pal,
I'm hoping you get some answers.
It's a lovely stub twist barrel, and well made rifle.  I
I've not seen anything quite like this bracket.   Bayonet lugs yes, but this is not one of those.
Unusually long, so a support makes sense.

Fingers crossed someone here will know something!

Are you still hammering woodies and crows?

Has much has I can Richard , there are plenty of  cusharts  but they are not my thing I only shoot them when requested by the farmer I think it is a waste of good meat just to feed the fxes , but crows yes they are the worse for  damage to crops and livestock 
Feltwad

Richard.

[WadePatton]

Perhaps it is used to mount a bullet starter, given the orientation of the dovetail flat.

Noting the sharpness of the crown makes me like this idea.  Or is it something else?

[Bob McBride]

Makes me think of all the crazy shooting stances being experimented with in those days for Creedmore and such. I think it’s some sort of unique foot mount, early bipod or some other prone shooting long range stabilizer. It’s obviously designed with a quick release but would be a very stable solid mount.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

What a lovely rifle.  I agree with Richard that the barrel is twist steel...the term Damascus is used loosely these days to mean anything from pattern welded to stubs twist, which is a mistake.  Damascus steel comes only from iron ore mined and forged in Damascus (Middle East).

I suggest that the fitting may have been to attach a hunting sword or bayonette.  It is similar to the Baker rifle, a copy of which I made some years ago and provide photos for comparison.

[WESTbury]

I do not think that whatever the device is for, it is substantial enough to be a bayonet mount. I still think it is for a bullet starter. I could be wrong though, in fact I'm wrong quite often according to my wife.

[Tanselman]

Perhaps "substantial" is in the eye of the beholder, but it looks substantial to me, and I would also think it was a mounting device for a hunting sword, something that could help dispatch a downed but thrashing deer [with sharp antler tines] without getting too close to the animal. The notch would keep the hunting sword from pulling off and staying in the deer when the rifle was withdrawn. Shelby Gallien

[WadePatton]

Yes it would be a wild variation to the standard muzzle extension. I like pig sticker now...need one of those for my hog rifle.

You'll have to have one made up for it Feltwad.

[Feltwad]

Thank you everyone for your replies but the more I look and think of this extension piece on the side of the muzzle leaves me in no doubt that this is a one off for fixing a stick stand to steady the muzzle when taking a long distance shot just the same has today when some  stalkers use a  Y shape thumb stick
Feltwad

[Robby]

I'm voting for the hunting sword.
Robby

[Bob McBride]

I think I'm in the Feltwad camp as I'm not sure about the hunting sword. Certainly could be, but applying the coup de gras by hand to a Buck is sketchy even at the best of times. I would think they'd do as we do today and just set there for a half hour and wait before approaching. Maybe call a buddy, Google what in the world 'Jentacular' means, and generally start thinking about how you're going to drag that baby out of that holler.....

[WESTbury]

There is one very practical and truly necessary application for this device we have not discussed. That would be to secure one's glass of Glenlivet rather than putting it on the ground and having it contaminated or worse, stolen by one of your shooting buddies.

[gibster]

Probably not the right answer, but maybe they attached their sling to it. It looks like there is an attachment point behind the trigger guard but I don't see anything where you would typically see a forward attachment point.  It's further forward than we normally see, but I guess it would work.

[WESTbury]

Feltwad--Why don't you contact The Lewis Drake Co of Murray, Kentucky who handle these antique single and double big bore rifles and ask them if they know what the device on the barrel is.

sales@drake.net

270-753-7200

[Feltwad]

I have been in contact with some of the world renowned   antique weapon connoisseurs and the answer is the same  they have never seen it before and could not give a diffident answer, maybe in the future some one will come forward with a image exactly the same.
Thank you
Feltwad

[WESTbury]

Well, in addition to having a very nice rifle, you have something unique.