Hydraulic-explosive-bullets

[MuskratMike]

While going through my huge stack of old Muzzle Blast magazines I recently acquired I found a feature article from May, 1964 entitled "Round balls that Explode".
 A gentleman by the name of George Huebner, Lyman's design engineer invented this and I am looking to see if anyone has heard of it and is it really safe to use?
 He took a pure lead .45 caliber round ball and drilled a 1/4-inch deep hole in the sprue using a #11 drill bit. He then inserted in the hole a drop or two from an eyedropper into the hole and installed a gas check over the hole to retain the water. The results were to say the least impressive, 3 results stand out: 1. penetration of the hydraulic-balls is slightly less than the regular balls, 2. the expansion of the hydraulic-balls is very much greater than the regular balls and it takes place at a much lower powder charges, 3. much greater deformity and fragmentation of the hydraulic balls.
I am including 3 photos from the article. The one that stands out the most is when he shot through solid wax blocks. The normal ball exited with a 7/8-inch hole (about normal) the hydraulic-ball exited with a 2 1/2-inch hole (impressive).
A little help here please.
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT IN ANY WAY SUGGESTING ANYONE DO OR TRY THIS!

[bob in the woods]

I've done it.       Didn't use water though. Sealed the hole with caulking.  Fun to play with, but I never tried it on game since I didn't see a need.

[LynnC]

Interesting. Pretty much a “hollow point” soft lead round ball i guess.

When I read the low velocity expansion, my first thought was try it with a mini ball.

[wolf]

i wonder how impressive it would be with my 62 cal. with a lot of water

[Eric Kettenburg]

That's pretty cool just for fun I guess!  Does indeed sound a lot like either a hollow point or possibly closer in theory to the modern 'controlled chaos' monolithic rounds which are designed to function in a horrific manner when hydraulics (i.e. fluid-loaded tissue) are involved.

[bob in the woods]

I used a .735 ball, drilled out.  Filled it with gel ,  and also tried #9 shot,  and various other things, including powder and percussion caps.  That was over 25 years ago. As mentioned, I had fun doing it and  test shooting various backstops , but couldn't see any real applicable advantage other than destruction of stuff.  For hunting any type of game, the round ball alone is probably better, and certainly isn't lacking.

[Greg Pennell]

I’ve read accounts of the old African big game hunters using explosive balls and bullets for dangerous game...specifically elephant and Cape buffalo. I’d imagine an exploding ball from a 4-bore is pretty impressive...

Greg

[MuskratMike]

I do believe the purpose of using water (as opposed to other materials) is water won't compress so when the ball strikes it's intended target it deforms and partially fragments. To my way of thinking a larger exit hole is better but I am not going to try it just passing information from years gone by.

[Curtis]

In my youth I experimented with drops of mercury in the hollow points of .22 cartridges with fascinating results. I would not ever recommend it on game for obvious reasons, but the impact was quite explosive.  Mentioned for educational purposes only!

Curtis

[smylee grouch]

I am no expert on the subject but I do have a fair amount of experience shooting round balls into game and my humble opinion is that the round ball all by it self is vastly Under Rated for its terminal performance on game. No need for any gimics or other hype. 

[MuskratMike]

Smylee Grouch: I could not agree with you more. i just posted this historical article to see who has or has not heard about it. I too use only patched lead round balls. Always have always will. I guess great minds run together.

[Panzerschwein]

Could you fill it with barbecue sauce to pre-season the game?

[smylee grouch]

I think that BBQ sauce idea would only work if you "season" the bore first. 

[Craig Wilcox]

I think Curtis and I are somehow related.

Back in the time when I was young and dumb (well, maybe the "dumb" part stayed with me?), I experimented with a small drop of mercury in a higher-powered projectile than did Curtis.  The effects were totally devastating - small hole entering an old fridge, the opposite side looked like a small grenade had detonated.

Never again - that was terrible to watch.

Plain old lead ball is much more to my liking, although I am now relegated to actually skinning and de-boning my quarry.

[Daryl]

I played around with explosive minnie balls back in the later 70's.  I'd modified the mould to almost solid base, then drilled
a 3/8" hold in the nose about 3/8" deep, almost filled that with a compound used for pill and tube locks back in the 1800's
about the time percussion caps were being developed. I sealed the tops over with beeswax. No detonator was needed.
3 shots took cut off a 12 Aspen tree.
I wrote it up in the Buckskin report and got a letter back from John Baird including a letter from a buckskinner who was a
chemist, noting that forumla was outlawed in 18something as it was unstable and would/could detonate from a change in
temperature, let along shock. I stopped those experiments.
Never experimented with water, though. Sounds safer.

[bob in the woods]

I used some hand cleaning gel. Works as well as water but it's easier to use and seal.

[davec2]

In WW 1, the British would take standard rifle ammunition and drill out a cavity in the nose.  They would also break open a standard stick of dynamite and pack the lose material (diatomaceous earth soaked with nitro glycerine) into the projectile nose cavity.  When the projectile was fired, the nitro glycerine concentrated at the tip of the cavity and would explode touching even very very flimsy material like the cloth skin of a Zeplin..........

[Dphariss]

"The Sporting Rifle and its Projectiles" by Forsythe goes into explosive "shells".
But there is little use for them in American.
Dan

[Dphariss]

In WW 1, the British would take standard rifle ammunition and drill out a cavity in the nose.  They would also break open a standard stick of dynamite and pack the lose material (diatomaceous earth soaked with nitro glycerine) into the projectile nose cavity.  When the projectile was fired, the nitro glycerine concentrated at the tip of the cavity and would explode touching even very very flimsy material like the cloth skin of a Zeplin..........

Sounds pretty flaky, if not suicidal, to me considering the impact sensitivity of Nitro. The "dynamite" coastal defense guns developed by the US were AIR GUNS (cannon) since firing nitro loaded shells with a traditional propellant was not possible.  Yes they really did use giant airguns at one point since the Nitro bursting charge was FAR more energetic than BP. Development of impact tolerant HE made the dynamite guns obsolete.


Dan

[MuskratMike]

Not sure how this topic went from adding a drop or two of water into a round ball to adding explosives. Can we get back to the original topic or I will pull it.