Author Topic: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - New link to the Case and the Accoutrements  (Read 34798 times)

Offline Mule Brain

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Side plate and stock shaping
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2020, 03:26:22 PM »
What an inspiration to see this kind of work.

Creating family heirlooms
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Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Side plate and stock shaping
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2020, 04:01:12 PM »
 Dang Dave, you roll....it would have taken me this long to get the BP and TG filed. Beautiful side plate.

   Tim

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - More stock shaping & molding
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2020, 05:40:22 AM »
Started on the cheek piece side of the butt and then transferred the shape of the lock panel (with a sheet of clear plastic) to the opposite side of the stock.





Did most of the concave shaping of the cheek piece with a larger rasp but then, digging around in my bench drawer, I came up with a barrel inlet rasp I bought from Frank Mittermeier Inc. while I was at the Naval Academy in 1973 (another long story).  I got a kick out of the "4th Class" postage......28 cents...Insured no less !!







Then I broke out my homemade molding tool   (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=57657.msg576909#msg576909)    to run a concave edge, and then a parallel bead, along both sides of the forearm.  With this tool the moldings come out perfectly straight, even in depth, and it took all of about 10 minutes to put the molding on both sides of the ram rod groove.







"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline 577SXS

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - More stock shaping & molding
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2020, 04:05:54 PM »
Nice work. Looking to seeing the finished guns. Where did you find that V shaped burr?

Offline flatsguide

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - More stock shaping & molding
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2020, 08:02:53 PM »
Thatcutter might be from a power checkering tool. Dave thanks for posting this as it comes at a very opportune time as I need to make on for my Chambers English rifle. Nice looking work!
Cheers Richard

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - More stock shaping & molding
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2020, 03:15:06 AM »
"V" shaped burr is available from Rio Grande, Gesswein, etc.  It is not from a checkering tool.
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - More stock shaping & molding
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2021, 05:53:33 AM »
Well....it has been several months now since I started working on these little rifles.  In the meantime, I have been recovering from radiation treatment, building a new shop, traveling across the country to New York (at Christmas) to meet the new grandson I am building this rifle for, putting up with all this pandemic lunacy out here in the asylum they call California.... etc, etc.  But finally I am in a position to start up again.  I will take some pictures tomorrow (when I have light) and carry on with this half scale rifle build.
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2021, 04:31:58 PM »
  Dave I have been following this
 since the start. Glad you are doing better. This has showed me a lot on how to do stuff. Very much appreciated.
I have a granddaughter who has taken an interest in my Black powder guns. SO guess I better get to it..  Thanks for showing us.  Oldtravler

Offline smallpatch

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2021, 12:12:24 AM »
davec2,
Ive built several for the grand kids. After I built the first one, I decided to build much simpler ones they just grow too quickly, and soon they dont fit anymore. Now hes 62 and 190lbs.
Heres the first one.
















In His grip,

Dane

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2021, 04:25:50 AM »
Small Patch,

What a great rifle !!!  You are right about them growing too fast.  I am already planning an intermediate size rifle for my grandson that he can have when this one doesn't fit him any longer... ;)

What caliber is this one of yours ?  And what barrel length ?
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2021, 04:44:12 AM »
OK....to start in again, here is the little guy I am building the rifle for.  He is busy learning to drive right now but shooting will come next....



I started building this rifle in a tiny space in the garage (where I have been working for the last nearly 40 years) but have now transitioned to my new shop space.  I finished the out building more than a year ago but have had to take the time to transition to the new space and try to get things organized.  Here is the outside......



Some inside shots......a little messy, but then I'm working in it now...







All the benches are set on steel tool room cabinets so I finally have a place to keep all the hand tools in some semblance of order....



And I always wanted one of those really cool, wooden, machinist's tool chests.  I had a fair amount of walnut handy, a couple of days to kill, and a table saw.  So I made this one for myself...



Now....to get going again on the little rifle.....
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2021, 04:51:43 AM »
Just to show the scale of the rifle, here are some shots next to one of my full scale rifles......This is pretty much where I left off working on it last September







Today I started in finishing up the contours on the forearm and butt molding with a tiny scraper.....








And I got the nose cap put to place....






"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline smallpatch

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2021, 07:40:56 AM »
Davec,
Dont remember the profile, but was originally a .40 cal Rice barrel, A weight, 42 long.  Jason cut 3 off the breech, and 1 off the muzzle, to make a super light weight little swamped barrel.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline RedRiverII

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2021, 05:11:39 PM »
Health first ,  last,  and always.  I pray all is well, or at the very least better.  Thank you for continuing this thread.  It has been a wonderful Friday morning sipping a cup of coffee and reading the entire thread just now.  Considering this project as an heirloom for your grandson ( grandsons?) ,  I did forget why two were being built,  the thread alone expresses your loving thought for these children.  Wonderful stuff Sir.  I took some notes and will find one of those little spoke shavers to purchase.  I should have mentioned sooner I'm retired,  ergo the exceptional morning reading this fine thread.  Best of luck!

Offline 577SXS

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2021, 07:58:20 PM »
Really nice. I going to build one of those little guns someday.

Sam

Offline duca

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2021, 09:03:07 PM »
Awesome work shop and build!! Thanks for sharing.

Anthony
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God created the Longrifle...

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2021, 10:06:07 PM »
RedriverII,

Thanks for the note....and glad I could provide some entertainment for your morning coffee.  I was originally building two for my own daughters but, as the post explained, life got away from me and they are both now in their thirties.  So I am working on the two; one for the one grandson I have....and a spare for the next grandchild that might come along    ;)

Hopefully I will have this first one done soon and can start on the second before I forget how I did things... :o
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline rmnc3r

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2021, 10:50:46 PM »
Hi Dave!
Nice to see you are 'back at it'  ;)

I really like your new shop addition...
I have room in the back yard for a Shed/Shop, but (sigh!) finding the motivation to actually do the work is becoming more and more elusive.

All the best and kindest regards.
Richard


Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Re-start after a long pause....
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2021, 04:44:19 AM »
Richard !

Thanks for the note.  I hope all is well with you.  I was sitting at the bench today trying to decide on a patch box design, engraving designs, carving motif, etc for this little rifle.  I think I am going to use a combination of the carving I did for you on the small rifle I finished for you and the engraving designs I used on the larger rifle pictured above in this thread to show scale.  The full size rifle is one I made with a walnut stock a few years ago....and i decided today I like the engraving enough to duplicate it on the little rifle.  But I like the carving I did on the rifle for you more than the carving on the walnut stock.  Hopefully it will all come out OK.

For those following this thread that are not familiar with the two rifles I am talking about here.  This is the walnut stocked long rifle thread:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=30985.0

And this is the little rifle I helped Richard with a couple of years ago:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37317.0
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Sub Scale Patch Box Parts....
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2021, 03:29:46 AM »
The shaping of the stock is generally done so i wanted to make and install the last of the metal parts before starting the carving.  As mentioned previously, I will take designs from rifles I have previously built so I started here with a full size print of a patch box from a previous rifle and then scaled it down to fit this little rifle.  I cut out the printed photo of the patch box and then rubber cemented the paper to sheet brass.  The parts were then cut out with a jeweler's saw and the details cleaned up with needle files and a dental hand piece.  I will make the hinge as a separate piece and then silver braze the hinge to the door and top piece.  The parts are almost ready to inlet except for contouring the ends where they meet the butt plate and bending them them to fit the shape of the stock first.











"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Sub Scale Patch Box Parts....
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2021, 11:04:00 AM »
Made a set of form blocks this evening and contoured the brass pieces of the patch box to conform to the stock shape.





"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Sub Scale Patch Box Parts....
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2021, 06:06:39 PM »
You do wonderful work, Dave.  And your kids and grandkids will have something to remember you by, and hopefully pass it down along the family line.

And viewing your little line-making tool, I do believe your inventiveness knows no limit.

Glad to see that you are recovering from your health difficulties.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline hawkeye

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Sub Scale Patch Box Parts....
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2021, 08:36:48 PM »
Gorgeous work Dave, wish I had a uncle or grandfather that could fix this for me 😭

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Patch Box Hinge
« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2021, 10:27:22 PM »
Making a patch box hinge for a normal size box is, if done in the traditional way, fairly time consuming and a little complicated.  Several years ago I made a hinge by a different method and silver brazed it to the box parts.  Although not formed from the parent material of the box lid and finial, it looks to me a lot like some box hinges that were separate and then riveted to the box parts on some original rifles.  Be that as it all may, I decided to do the brazed method on this little box.

The lid is 1 inch wide and I had a small brass hinge just that wide as well.  To insure that the lid and the finial are just as strong as if made from the parent material, I elected to hard silver braze the pieces and also make sure that there was an excellent fit between the hinge halves and their respective box pieces.  Since both the box lid and finial had been contoured to fit the shape of the stock, the hinge had to be shaped to match the curve in order to get a tight braze joint.  Here is a shaped half of the hinge and a photo showing the tight fit up to the box lid......(When I have to shape small parts like this with a file, I usually super glue the part to a small block of wood to do the work as in the picture here.  Once the file work is finished, heating gently with a torch easily releases the part.  I do the same thing for a lot of my engraving.)





Then the hinge halves are silver brazed to their respective parts.....







The box lid and finial are reassembled with the hinge pin.......



The box parts are drilled for the attaching screws and mounted in place for the start of the inletting......


"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: A Tale of Two Little Rifles - Patch Box Hinge
« Reply #74 on: July 06, 2021, 10:30:50 PM »
For anyone interested, here is a re-post from an old thread on patch boxes from 4 years ago....it is easier to see how I do this on a full scale patch box rather than on the half scale one....(Original thread     https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=42363.msg415586#msg415586    )

"My personal take is that the guys who built these things 200 years ago were....a) very clever.....and b) made their guns the best way they knew how.  I try to do the same while keeping within the framework of building an 18th century rifle.  As for patch box hinges, I have bent them, but only at the edges....I always keep the center / working part of the hinge straight.  The following has become my favorite way to do this after seeing a photo of an original with a separate riveted on hinge.

I make the hinge (as wide as the patch box door) from two pieces of 1/16 inch thick brass plate and two lengths of 3/16 inch (or even smaller) diameter brass rod, each the full width of the hinge.  I put both pieces of brass rod in the lathe in turn and drill a 1/16 inch hole through them lengthwise for the hinge pin.  I then silver solder the two rods to the two pieces of brass plate.  Then I cut away alternate pieces of the brass rod to form the hinge knuckles.  All of these parts are nice and straight, so this work is easy to do.

Independently, I bend both the patch box finial and the door to match the contour of the stock as closely as I can.  Now, I file the plates on the hinge sides to match the contour of the underside of the door and the finial.  The hinge looks like this at that point......





At this point, the hinge halves can either be soldered to the door and the finial or they can be riveted.  Both are traditional methods.  Now I have a door and a finial that are curved to the stock but a perfectly straight hinge.  But it looks like its curved somewhat because the surrounding brass is.  If you want the hinge to look even more like it is curved, file off a little of the brass hinge knuckles on both ends.  Here it is just before assembly......



And here is the finished patch box......"

« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 10:35:32 PM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780