Colonial muskets of the AWI

[JW]

Thank you for all the help information. I was looking at it, that if I was there as a Militiaman during the AWI what musket would I most likely have acquired and or be issued. I believe that I would most likely have had a period rifle which I have a few as well as a Trade Gun of which I have read were also used by the Colonists. That being said as I do not have a musket of the period I was researching the most common types.

Since there were so few CoS muskets it would be safe to say then that I would most likely would have had a Bess or Charleville then.

The Bess's have sights on the barrel as opposed to the sights on the band of the Charlovilles. Having only shot a few Bess's is there an accuracy difference and would that have been an issue that they would have been concerned with then?

Thank you

Hi, One Shot. Dave is steering you in the right direction in regards to musket information. I would caveat your sentence above about rifles by adding that it was completely dependent on context. Virtually all armed militia in the northern colonies and the vast majority of militia in the most populated areas of the mid-Atlantic colonies were armed with smoothbores. That said, there were areas in Virginia, Maryland, and PA where rifles were nearly ubiquitous by the time of the AWI.  These were more sparsely populated areas that had developed a "rifle culture". Think of the Scots Irish, over-mountain men. The soldiers of Virginia's rural counties (back country), for example, who served in Dunmore's War in 1774, were armed (pretty much to a man) with rifles. Thus, the light companies raised in PA, MD, and VA in 1775 were largely drawn from these back country folk, though the PA companies I believe were drawn from Lancaster, Berk, and Northampton counties. It would have been uncommon indeed for militia serving in eastern counties (or north of PA) to own a rifle. Rifle culture doesn't catch on in the northern states until well after the war.

I would say that the back country rifle country - though perhaps to a lesser extent - holds true in North and South Carolina as well. Still, within the overall population, smoothbores of varying types were the norm throughout the colonies.

[WESTbury]

  The Royal Marine units, many with combat experience, did great service as a rear guard preventing a complete rout. That is why my next musket build will be a pattern 1759 Marine and Militia short land musket.  The marine musket and the pattern 1760 light infantry carbine were probably the 2 most important firearms used on that day by the British. 
dave

Dave---If you have a copy of DeWitt Bailey's Small Arms of the British Forces in America, check out page 203. DeWitt used a photo I gave him of the rear strap of the triggerguard having markings of the Marines Plymouth Division. I found that musket in a New Jersey gunshop in 2008 along with a Short Land marked to the 79th Regiment of Foot. I bought the 79th marked musket went home and did some research on the Plymouth Div and called my friend who promptly went and bought the musket.

My 79th marked Short Land was the subject of an article I wrote which appeared in Man at Arms Vol 30 #5 in 2008.

[smart dog]

Hi Kent,
Thanks very much for the post.  I would love to read your paper in Man at Arms.  I have all of Bailey's and Bill Ahearn's books, including Ahearn's last publication (2018) on British military longarms in colonial America coauthored with Robert Nittolo.  I also have Eric Goldstein and Stuart Mowbrays work on Besses.  I live in Vermont and get over to Fort Ti a lot to dig into their collection.  In addition, I use the Neumann collection at Valley Forge and Kjell Swan's collection at Washington's Crossing as much as I can.  A neat story - I am building an upgraded pattern 1730 Brown Bess.  Upgraded meaning it has a nose band, double bridled lock, and later pattern trigger guard.  Anyway, I used my notes from past restorations and photos from Goldstein and Mowbray's book as guides for cutting the lock mortice.  I cut the mortice exactly as you see in a number of the photos in Goldstein and Mowbray's book. The lock, which I built from TRS parts, just popped into the mortice almost perfectly.  I just had to scrape a few spots to clear the mainspring.  The photos below show the musket and lock mortice.  I am still filling grain in the finish but in the end it will look like a heavy varnish.  The wood is black walnut stained to look like English walnut.  The stock was finished with files and scrapers leaving some tool marks and rough spots.   

dave 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

A grand piece of work Dave.

[WESTbury]

Dave--That is superior work in every way. Hope you will share the finish musket with us.

I went to Fort Ti a few times when I lived in New England. Had a great roast turkey dinner at some restaurant that specialized in turkey.

Last year I did a posting on a presentation that Billy put together on the Rev War, hope you got a chance to see it.

[bob in the woods]

Years ago, I built a Long Land Pattern Bess from TOW's "Advanced Builder's" parts sets...I think they were parts from The Rifle Shop.  Upon finishing it and shooting it, I was not at all satisfied with the accuracy, using the bayonet lug alone for a sight.  So I cut a slot lengthwise in the lug and installed a piece of .080" silver.  It made all the difference, and I used the musket in smoothbore matches for many years, doing very well.  I sold the gun, its bayonette and a cartridge box Id made to a subscriber on this site, in a weak moment.  Now of course, the gun and the money are long gone....lesson re-learned.
Anyway, here's some images of that sight, 'case someone wants to improve the shootability of their musket.  I included some notes I made as to sight pictures using this sight.

Is this the " Bess" that you shot the moose with ?    If I recall correctly, it was a 100 + yard shot ?

[One Shot]

[/quote]

Hi, One Shot. Dave is steering you in the right direction in regards to musket information. I would caveat your sentence above about rifles by adding that it was completely dependent on context. Virtually all armed militia in the northern colonies and the vast majority of militia in the most populated areas of the mid-Atlantic colonies were armed with smoothbores. That said, there were areas in Virginia, Maryland, and PA where rifles were nearly ubiquitous by the time of the AWI.  These were more sparsely populated areas that had developed a "rifle culture". Think of the Scots Irish, over-mountain men. The soldiers of Virginia's rural counties (back country), for example, who served in Dunmore's War in 1774, were armed (pretty much to a man) with rifles. Thus, the light companies raised in PA, MD, and VA in 1775 were largely drawn from these back country folk, though the PA companies I believe were drawn from Lancaster, Berk, and Northampton counties. It would have been uncommon indeed for militia serving in eastern counties (or north of PA) to own a rifle. Rifle culture doesn't catch on in the northern states until well after the war.

I would say that the back country rifle country - though perhaps to a lesser extent - holds true in North and South Carolina as well. Still, within the overall population, smooth bores of varying types were the norm throughout the colonies.
[/quote]
JW, correct, that I understand. I was talking in the context if I was back then, I most likely would think the same way as I do now. Have the best firearm I could get. As you discuss, In most probability I would have started out with smooth bore and I am thinking the Charleville (that way the Brits can't hang me for stealing firearms) would what I would have. Then I would look at acquiring a rifle.

Now back to today, I have a few early Lancasters for the period, a Trade gun and all I need to complement them would be a militia smooth bore and period pistol to go with it.

I do concur with your thoughts of the availability in the Eastern and Northern areas.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

No Bob, this Bess is a serious upgrade from that gun.  In 1979 I killed my first moose with a Brown Bess replica from Japan.  It was .75 cal. and I used a .735" ball with heavy patch for hunting.  I've shot many moose since then with a variety of firearms, but none have made the critter stagger like that big ball.
In 1981 (I think) I used that first Japanese Bess at the Canadian Nationals in Ft. McMurray Alberta for both smoothbore (round ball) and for trap.  I and another fellow who was shooting a cartridge double and black powder shells, shot a 25 straight without a miss.  There was no pressure either - CBC was filming the event.  The audience declared that I should be awarded the medal for first place, me shooting the more difficult gun, but there was a shoot off, and eventually, I missed a bird and my competitor did not.  That memory is far more valuable to me than a cast metal medal.  I've been friends with that fellow ever since.

[jim alford]

What happened to the rest of the photos of the original posted by COLLECTOR?

[Collector]

What happened to the rest of the photos of the original posted by COLLECTOR?

Removed.  The parts gun profile and trigger guard photos were retained, as they provide sufficient continuity to the posts that were generated in the discussion.  Regardless, the forum is "Contemporary Longrifle Collecting" and the balance of the photos didn't actually help to advance that topic.  Editing the post(s), just made sense.

[smart dog]

Collector,
I like the way the maker used an iron nut under the trigger guard to anchor the tang bolt.  I am sure many colonial muskets and fowlers were made that way.  Curiously, it is also the way British ordnance did it for the pattern 1745 "Lord Loudon's" carbine and the similar pattern 1760 light infantry fusil, shown below.




dave