Author Topic: Not grouping (Read 9568 times)

Robby · « **Reply #75 on:** September 19, 2020, 03:42:28 PM »

Hmmm, So last night I gave the sight issue some time in my thoughts. The sights I made are historically correct for the time and area of style, meaning they are tight to the barrel and small. I began to wonder if with my old eyes I am experiencing parallax, a bending of the light. How this works as it applies to sighting, as an example, if you hold your arms out at full length in front of you toward a light source and bring tow fingers together they appear to touch before they actually do touch, so as I view the front sight through the notch of the rear sight the light in the gap can make the front sight pull to the right or left, when in actuality it is the light in the gap making it appear so.
I am making a new set of sights based more on an 'express sight' style, which will eliminate the possibility of parallax. The original sights will remain with the gun in the patch box, finally good for something, HAH!
The saga continues.
Robby

snapper · « **Reply #76 on:** September 19, 2020, 04:04:48 PM »

Robby

Several people suggested letting someone else shoot the rifle to see what happens. I could not see where you addressed or tried that, perhaps I missed it.

Have you tried that? You are a variable as you know. It certainly could be your eyes and sights.

I have a rifle I built for hunting in .54 several years ago. It will throw a round ever once and a while for unknown reasons and when it does it is quite a few inches. It is frustrating.

Good luck

Fleener

Robby · « **Reply #77 on:** September 19, 2020, 05:47:55 PM »

Snapper, Yes, that is something I want to try. I am hoping when my son gets a day off he can come out here and give it a go. At the range I go to there is hardly a time when there is anyone there and when there is they are old guys who have long since gone to modern scopes. I always offer to let anyone that shows interest in my guns a chance to shoot them, so far, judging from the shooting
I've seen, my eyes are much better than their's, Hah! Thats okay though, I have yet to see anyone not have a big grin on their face after dropping the flint on one of these.
Robby

Marcruger · « **Reply #78 on:** September 19, 2020, 09:29:44 PM »

The test patching went in today's mail Robby. My apologies for the delay. They think it will be there on Tuesday. God Bless, Marc

Darkhorse · « **Reply #79 on:** September 19, 2020, 09:55:07 PM »

The rear sight could very well be the culprit in shooting large groups. Might not be a rifle issue at all.
Several years ago I checked my sights in the late summer and everything was shooting right where they were supposed to. In preparation for some squirrel hunting I checked my .40 over Christmas. I couldn't shoot a group. Period.
I didn't think it was the rifle so it had to be me. It was. My sight had deteriorated that fast.
Since I hunt by my own rules, it wouldn't matter if I installed peeps on my rifles.
I wanted a small peep that wouldn't stand out and look too bad on my rifles.
This is what I came up with and all of a sudden I was shooting tight groups again. I'm well pleased.

Robby · « **Reply #80 on:** September 20, 2020, 09:54:22 PM »

Thank you Marc!!! Can't wait to give it a go!!
Robby

MuskratMike · « **Reply #81 on:** September 20, 2020, 11:26:55 PM »

I agree with Darkhorse. The last few years my eyesight has just got to the point I have trouble seeing my sights. Shooting targets, game and gongs at close range I am fine but at further distances I needed some help. When I had my .54 rifle built it was expressly for hunting and I just needed to be able to see a little better. My builder (Lowell Haarer) installed this aperture on the rear tang as he has the same problem and installs them on all his own rifles. It is not the rear sight I still have the traditional front and rear sights. This just helps my eye focus and see better. It really works!

Daryl · « **Reply #82 on:** September 21, 2020, 08:12:17 PM »

Using the three sights, aperture, rear and front really does sharpen up the rear and front sights, however they might not be allowed
in some competitions at some rendezvous, even though the open rear sight is still on the rifle. An aperture is an aperture. I am only
mentioning this to prevent possible problems in the future.

MuskratMike · « **Reply #83 on:** September 22, 2020, 12:06:47 AM »

I have never been told I can't use this set up. If they did I guess I would either use a different rifle or pack up and go home never to return to that shoot again. Primitive matches don't allow this set up and I know that going in. $#*! they boot you out if your tent has a zipper on the door.

wolf · « **Reply #84 on:** September 22, 2020, 12:28:59 PM »

darkhorse I like the looks of your sight. how is it attached?

Daryl · « **Reply #85 on:** September 22, 2020, 07:34:31 PM »

Looks like a longer tang screw to me.

Darkhorse · « **Reply #86 on:** September 22, 2020, 11:07:10 PM »

That's close Daryl but not quite a tang screw. In the center of that sight I drilled and tapped a #10-48 hole and inserted a piece of threaded screw cut from a regular screw.
In the tang I also drilled and tapped a #10-48 hole. Below this hole I cut some clearance and also deepend the hole in the wood. This hole is actually in the curve of the tang so great care must be taken not to break a drill or tap. Great care must also be taken in laying out this hole and getting it centered in the tang. I want it as close as possible to center, that way I can adjust windage by slightly drifting the front site.
A small nut, used as a lock nut is screwed in from the bottom until it contacts the bottom of the tang. I also had to remove a little metal to get that nut to seat well against the tang. I have used both a locknut, or 2 nuts threaded onto the shaft to lock it in place without the rear sight turning.
Even though the sight can be adjusted for depth it is not designed to be constantly fiddled with. Once the rifle is sighted in the sight is locked into place for hunting.

Prototype pics.

Marcruger · « **Reply #87 on:** September 23, 2020, 12:24:34 AM »

"Thank you Marc!!! Can't wait to give it a go!!
Robby"

USPS said it should arrive today. :-)

Robby · « **Reply #88 on:** September 23, 2020, 12:29:45 AM »

Mebby tomarah!

Robby

Daryl · « **Reply #89 on:** September 23, 2020, 12:48:26 AM »

LOL- I was looking at the one that uses the tang screw, not darkhorse's sight.
Even his shows at least 2 different sights, one bent sheet steel, the other made from a ctg. case.

Darkhorse · « **Reply #90 on:** September 23, 2020, 06:02:56 AM »

The one that looks like a cartridge case is a prototype made from a .40 cal. S&W. The one's I actually use started life as a piece of 1/8" thick weldable steel.

hudson · « **Reply #91 on:** September 23, 2020, 06:25:35 PM »

With aging eyes I have started opening the notch in the rear site to 1/8” and a bit more with good results.

Jeff Murray · « **Reply #92 on:** September 23, 2020, 10:24:03 PM »

Have you tried measuring trigger pressure required to fire the rifle. the cardboard target shows a low - right tendency which could be trigger pull pressure on sight alignment. Also you might try double sandbags, one front and one on the butt to minimize movement when firing - and shades over the sights to eliminate any reflection off of the barrel or sights. my local range faces southwest and is a nightmare later in the day with iron sights.

Robby · « **Reply #93 on:** September 24, 2020, 08:18:05 PM »

Jeff, I have done all those things and continue to do some of them. I'm shooting left handed.
Hudson, I have opened it a bit and will probably do some more but for right now I made a set of express sights I'm working with and the results are nor encouraging.
I've got some patching material coming and want to try that with .490 and .495 balls, express and regular sights. If that doesn't work I will get in contact with the barrel maker and get his thoughts.
Robby

Not English · « **Reply #94 on:** September 27, 2020, 06:32:19 AM »

Robby,

Very "tongue in cheek", but it looks to me like the lock's on the wrong side!!!

Dave

Daryl · « **Reply #95 on:** September 27, 2020, 07:57:51 AM »

Robby- these are my sights on the .69 rifle I am using for the postal matches - most of them.
They seem to give me a decent sight picture. The front sight is a small diameter bead.
With these sights & typical patched round ball, from a bench rest, perhaps 2 falls ago, so a young man of 68,
I shot a 5 shot group that was 1/2" at 50 yards on centres. These sights work for me, with old eyes.
load .034" denim (14oz)
85gr. 2F GOEX
.682" pure lead RB.

Robby · « **Reply #96 on:** September 28, 2020, 04:29:27 PM »

Yep, those are the style I made Daryl, my front bead might be a touch larger but I get a very good sight picture. My first trial with them was not encouraging, still not getting a decent group. I was hoping this would prove that it was me all along but it is doing pretty much what it has been doing all along.
Had to take a three day break, hope to be back at it today or tomorrow.
Robin

Marcruger · « **Reply #97 on:** September 30, 2020, 12:10:54 AM »

Robby, any time I use a bead front sight, I have found a special made target really helps with accuracy. A front bead covers so much of the target that it is hard to know the aiming point.

I use a large sheet of day-glo yellow poster paper, and add a full length 1" wide black cross on the paper with a magic marker. It appears at a distance like a crosshair behind the front bead, allowing fine centering. I've shot groups at 1-1/4" at 100 yards with a bead front and a peep with that target.

Just an idea for you. Did the patching arrive yet? God Bless, Marc

Daryl · « **Reply #98 on:** September 30, 2020, 01:13:41 AM »

Good idea on the target, Marc.

Robby · « **Reply #99 on:** September 30, 2020, 04:04:14 PM »

Mark, That is pretty much the target I made after my first go with the bead front sight, I left it the natural cardboard color and 1/2" bars though. Shows up great, I can center the vertical bar and hold the bead so it is capped by the horizontal bar. Weather went to $#@* here the last couple days, hoping for tomorrow.
Robby

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Author Topic: Not grouping (Read 9568 times)