Author Topic: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?  (Read 1998 times)

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« on: September 13, 2020, 02:53:54 PM »
There are two of these 39 inch long barrel muskets known, there may be more. You will see in the photos that the barrel band spacing is proportional to the shorter barrel and every component has the same Assembly Roman Numeral "VIIII". What is unique about it in contrast to other Springfield muskets of its era is the ramrod retaining spring fitted to the bottom inside surface of the rear barrel band. The area of the forestock where the rear band is located has a clearance slot for the spring. The musket is dated 1802 on the buttplate, which was the standard location for the dated of assembly. The barrel has all of the standard proof and viewing marks. In other words, this was assembled at Springfield Armory. The muzzle on the barrel is sized to fit the bayonet of the period, ie the barrel is not a "cutdown".

I believe that it was intended for dragoons a regiment of which was proposed(labeled "2nd") in a document sent to the US Congress Dec 31, 1798 by President John Adams a copy of that letter is shown below. It is from the American State Papers website.

I believe that, like all of the US Flintlock Muskets up to and including the Model 1840, it is a close copy of a French arm, the Model 1763/1766 Cavalry Musketoon. An example of which is pictured on page 343 of Moller's American Military Shoulder Arms Vol 1.

As stated above there is another of these known and is pictured on page 20 of Robert Ball's book Springfield Armory Shoulder Weapons. In addition, I have the data sheet of that musket filled out by the then owner, Burt Kellerstedt. It is now in another private collection. The musket shown in the photos is in the collection of a friend and is very definitely not for sale.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2024, 03:18:42 AM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 04:58:41 AM »
If anyone reading this has any theories as to intended purpose for this 39 inch barrel musket is, I'd love to hear them. I do not know who owns the second example that was in Kellerstedt's collection so I'm hoping there is an outside chance that someone reading this knows where it is. It would be great to compare notes on them.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2260
  • Oklahoma
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 07:43:29 AM »
Dragoon, artillery or cadet prototype maybe? Maybe just a test prototype. Wouldn’t surprise me if they tested a shorter musket in the hope of saving 5”+/- of barrel material. The US. Government at least tried back then to be frugal.
Psalms 144

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2020, 02:35:07 PM »
Clark---Thanks for your response. I'm leaning toward a prototype. As I mentioned in my original post, only two of these have been identified. There are plenty of 42 inch long barrel examples made between 1799 and 1814. Most collectors refer to them as Ships Muskets. I believe that those with 42 inch barrels were built to utilize barrels that, for various reasons, finished up at 42 inches.

Below is a 1797 dated Springfield Work Return listing 156 "Short" barrels. Unfortunately their length is not specified.
 

"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Steve Collward

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 03:07:46 PM »
Nice photos and description of a very unique musket.  Although the "Reorganization of the Army" document does not specifically mention it, is it possible that this musket was being considered for a company of Light Infantry?

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 03:18:09 PM »
Steve--Thanks for your comments.

Light Infantry use is possible as well. As I understand it, some Dragoons fought on foot, having arrived in style on their horses. The ramrod retaining spring on the lower band may indicate mounted use as well as foot.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1773
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2020, 07:47:00 PM »
Dragoons, as originally conceived in the late 16th or early 17th century, were primarily mounted infantry riding to the battle and then dismounting and fighting on foot with fighting from horseback a very secondary consideration, the idea being I guess to combine the mobility of cavalry with the firepower and staying power of infantry. The Battle of Naseby in 1645 during the English Civil War offers what looks to me like an example of how dragoons were intended to function  - the Parliamentarian dragoons initially deployed on foot behind a hedge and did significant damage with their muskets, later mounting and charging the Royalist flank when the opportunity presented itself.

By the middle of the 18th century, though, dragoons had evolved into a general-purpose medium cavalry type, armed with saber, a pistol or two, and a carbine. This may have been because cavalry was a more prestigious arm than infantry, so national and unit pride encouraged mission creep towards true cavalry status (particularly since dragoons were already almost as expensive as cavalry to equip, despite poorer quality mounts and swords). It may also have been the case that the hybrid units, while good in theory, tended to combined the disadvantages of both branches, being more expensive than infantry yet offering less firepower since every fourth or fifth man was tasked with holding the horses at the rear instead of being in the ranks firing his musket, while dragoons could not maneuver and fight hand-to-hand as well as true cavalry (having to train for two tasks instead of one, plus poorer quality equipment, I think.) While, contra certain modern authors, it is possible to find examples of mounted infantry that did well (Okey's dragoons at Naseby, Johnson's Mounted Kentucky Rifles in the War of 1812, plus most of the patriot militia in the Carolinas during the Revolutionary War rode horses and dismounted to fight), it is plausible that there weren't very many roles that a hybrid unit could fill that couldn't be done as well or better than a standard infantry or cavalry unit.

So by 1798 a dragoon unit was just a cavalry unit, more specifically one that could do duty as a light cavalryman (scouting, skirmishing, pursuit of a broken foe) and a heavy one (charging enemy cavalry and infantry). While European powers still had multiple differnt types of cavalry with different roles (hussars, uhlans, lancers, curassiers, etc.) British had already transitioned all their cavalry into dragoons (differentiated only into light and heavy dragoons) by this time, and the US never raised any other kinds of cavalry until mechanization.

While Neumann illustrates a French 1770-71 Dragoon musket with a 42" barrel, indicating that (if his ID is correct) they were still producing longer weapons for dragoons at that late date, cavalry carbines were generally considerably shorter and a 39" barrel would have been rather long for weapon intended for a true cavalryman. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that these short muskets were made as a copy of an older French weapon, but never adopted or produced in numbers because the role of dragoons in American service at the beginning of the 19th century differed too much from the role of French dragoons half a century before. Put in simpler terms, American cavalry needed a gun they could stow in a carbine boot on the saddle instead of being forced to sling over their shoulders (I also note that this gun has infantry style sling swivels mounted underneath instead of cavalry style mounted on the side of the gun.)
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2020, 08:22:50 PM »

I believe that, like all of the US Flintlock Muskets up to and including the Model 1840, it is a close copy of a French arm, the Model 1763/1766 Cavalry Musketoon. An example of which is pictured on page 343 of Moller's American Military Shoulder Arms Vol 1.


Elnathan--Thanks for all the great information you posted on dragoons' etc.

I definitely agree with you about this "prototype" musket being a copy of a French weapon as I pointed out in my original posting. I neglected to add that the French 1763/1766 Cavalry Musketoon has a barrel length of 31 inches. That Musketoon also had front and rear slingswivels and a ramrod retaining spring pinned to a lug on the bottom of the barrel. 5 inches forward of the breech.
 See photo from Neumann's book.
Kent

« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 08:54:38 PM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2260
  • Oklahoma
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2020, 05:09:16 PM »
The US Cavalry, as a branch, was formed in 1861 from Dragoons and Mounted Rifles. Both the Union and Confederacy put mounted infantry, flying artillery and standard cavalry to good effect in the later stages of the American Civil War.
Psalms 144

Offline satwel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2020, 02:52:54 PM »
Westbury

Is this one of the 400 "ships muskets" ordered by the Secretary of War in 1799 for issue to the Navy? A friend of mine has one. He showed it to me when I visited his workshop last year. He said it's a standard Springfield armory infantry pattern except the barrels were shortened by two inches to facilitate easier handling below decks on the USS Constitution and USS Constellation.

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY PROTOTYPE ? DRAGOON MUSKET?
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2020, 03:47:40 PM »
satwel---Thanks for the reply. I am about 99% sure that this 39 inch barrel musket is not a Ships Musket. George Moller covers the Springfield Ship Musket on pages 116 & 117 of his book American Military Shoulder Arms Vol 2. One of the defining features, according to Moller, include a 42" long barrel.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 12:15:23 AM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964