Tannic acid and iron nitrate

[Mike Lyons]

I’ve got an experiment using iron nitrate over tannic acid and just strait iron nitrate going on.  It’s pretty neat,  so I figured I’d post it.  It looks like the tannic acid pulls the black out more but turned the wood honey colored instead of reddish.  It’s been storming all day so,  I haven’t had a chance to take the pieces out in the sun.  I haven’t used any aniline dyes yet. 

[flinchrocket]

Have you tried 2 coats of iron nitrate without the tannic acid? Just wondering how dark that would be.

[Mike Lyons]

Have you tried 2 coats of iron nitrate without the tannic acid? Just wondering how dark that would be.

Yes I have. All of these are 2 coats of each. I normally don’t get much of a darker color on the second coat of aquafortis but it ensures that you didn’t miss a spot.  I’ll label these when I get finished and can get a good quality picture in the sun.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's my experience with tannic acid and ferric nitrate...after the tannic acid has dried, and I apply the FN, the wood goes jet black, all over.  No curl is evident except for the texture of the surface.  In order to expose the curl, I have to sand off the black.  The curl holds onto the black and so the contrast is exposed.  Another app of FN, a blush, and I have the colour and the curl.

[Mike Lyons]

Thanks Taylor.  That even makes sense.  You get the black and then you work on getting the warmer FN color. 

Thanks again,

Mike

[A.Merrill]

   I just did the same thing as Taylor with the same results.    Al

[Marcruger]

Thank you for the explanation Taylor.  Your guns always end up with individual but routinely attractive colors.  I trust your experience.

A quick question please - how do you go about sanding back the tannic acid induced black in and around fine carving?  Sanding sticks?   

It seems one of the challenges to using tannic is that it tends to give a black & honey combination once sanded back.  Missing the reds.  Does the second Aqua Fortis application give you back the reds/rust?  I know Jim Chamber's Nut Brown helps as a red providing over-stain before finish. 

The photo you've shown of the two Hawken rifles, one dark and one redder using the same process.  Do those have any stain after the Aqua Fortis?  Were either Red Maple?  Some softer woods appear to take the chemicals better with richer colors?

Mike, I think the redder ones in the photos you posted are some beautiful choices as they stand. 

God Bless,   Marc

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Neither rifle was red maple, but one may have been Western Broadleaf maple. 

I glue sandpaper to Popsicle sticks and cut them up with a razor knife.  It's tedious work, but I don't know any short cuts.  Getting the ground perfect as you can) before stain goes a long way to eliminating the need for too much sanding afterwards.

FN by itself is not nearly as interesting as with tannic acid undercoat.

[Marcruger]

Thank you Taylor!

[yulzari]

Alkanet root coloured oil will add a red tone.

[Marcruger]

Alkanet root is notorious for fading when used on cloth. How about on wood?

[yulzari]

Never noticed a problem when used on wood in oil.

[old dog]

Planning on using Tannc acid and  iron nitrate on a highly figured pistol stock.  I see the recommendations are to not use it in  the lock or barrel mortises.  should the mortises be stained or finished with anything, wax?  What did the "old-timers use.  I would think something for moisture protection.
Old Dog.

[WadePatton]

Planning on using Tannc acid and  iron nitrate on a highly figured pistol stock.  I see the recommendations are to not use it in  the lock or barrel mortises.  should the mortises be stained or finished with anything, wax?  What did the "old-timers use.  I would think something for moisture protection.
Old Dog.

Shellac or beeswax is what I would use on the inside. Shellac might fill in some corners, and have to be relieved for things to got back in proper. Both are old-school naturals.  If using beeswax I'd do it last to avoid any chance of contamination of the exterior surfaces (assuming them to be finished otherwise-but that beeswax works for that too if you like).

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Don't use ferric nitrate in inlets like the lock, barrel channel, patchbox, etc.  The solution continues to work (acidic) long after you've finished your rifle, and the parts in the inlets will oxidize.  I seal mine with the same finish that goes on the outside of the wood...Tung Oil Finish from Circa 1850 (brand).

[Jim Kibler]

Planning on using Tannc acid and  iron nitrate on a highly figured pistol stock.  I see the recommendations are to not use it in  the lock or barrel mortises.  should the mortises be stained or finished with anything, wax?  What did the "old-timers use.  I would think something for moisture protection.
Old Dog.

It's not a bad idea to at least put a seal coat of finish on the inlets, but all of the original work I've seen had none.

Jim

[seniorsgt]

really like that 4th picture can you tell me what combo you use. thanks bob

[old dog]

Thank you gentlemen.  I don't often have much to add to a topic, a lot of questions and no answers.  Woodworkers will tell you shellac is fantastic in the correct place, but it does not stand up to moisture.  Just my two cents worth.
Old Dog

[Mike Lyons]

really like that 4th picture can you tell me what combo you use. thanks bob

That one was tannic acid under iron nitrate using the process Jim Kibler has on youtube.  I followed his recommended waiting times and applied both solutions twice before blushing. 
I have one piece of advice.  Make sure you have good light when you blush.  If you are in low light and don’t blush the Iron nitrate completely,  you start slathering on your finish and rub it back to a nasty yellow green ugly, blotchy unblushed iron nitrate look.  Some areas will be nice blushed reddish and some will be baby @#$%/!! yellow, green. 

I started adding dyes and tints and everything I had to fix the blotchy areas and ended up with a train wreck.  Luckily,  it all rubbed off and I was able to apply Taylor’s method.

One way to avoid this is make sure you blush it completely using good Light or use Taylor’s advice.  Rub it back dry and then apply additional coats of iron nitrate.  You’ll clearly see the iron nitrate turn warm colors between the dark tannic acid lines if you do it that way.  It’s almost full proof.

[old dog]

Would someone define "blush" for me?
OD

[Daryl]

Use of a heat gun (or stove) to heat the wood's surface to cause the chemical reaction to make the nitrous work(kick), darkening the soft wood & hard, for that matter.

Before "blushing", the wood is barely stained brownish by the nitric/iron solution.

[old dog]

THANKS!
OD

[old dog]

This discussion reminds me of a DVD I saw several years ago of a gun building video by Wallace Gustler..  The stock was maple.  He finished it with a mixture of asphalt and turpentine.
I imagine early gunsmiths tried all kinds of things or what was available.  Maybe that gun developed a beautiful patina after many years of use.
OD

[Not English]

Old Dog,

Somewhere or other I  ran across a comment by Wallace Gusler about using asphaltum. He mixed it with linseed oil and remarked that it took a long time to finish. I bought a small quantity of gilsonite (asphaltum froma mine in Utah) with the idea of experimenting with it. I will be trying turpentine, boiled linseed oil, or some combination. I have done it yet though.

[Eric Krewson]

Not knowing better I have always used aqufortis in the inlets, I neutralized more than was probably necessary with lye water and put at lest one coat of finish in said inlets. I have never had one speck of rust on the undersides of anything that was sitting in these inlets. I don't coat the underside of my barrels with anything except Barricade, no motor oil or beeswax. I only pull the barrel if I am caught out in the rain, these occurrences may be years apart.