Author Topic: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London  (Read 1963 times)

Offline Macs69

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Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« on: September 28, 2020, 02:22:18 PM »
Good morning, all.
       Please let me know your thoughts on this 8 bore fowling gun. I have owned it for 20 years or so. I have recently been contemplating selling it to fund some more sensible contemporary purchases, that I'll use on a more frequent basis. What are your thoughts of value on this? Builder's name, Ryan & Son, is on the top flat of the octagon to round barrel, along with gold filled wedding bands.










Offline Macs69

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2020, 02:24:50 PM »

Offline Macs69

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2020, 02:26:06 PM »





Offline WESTbury

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2020, 03:26:06 PM »
Nice looking fowler, great wood.

How did you determine that it is from the 1825 period?
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2020, 03:42:54 PM »
West,
The style of engraving fits the 1820-30 period, plus the flat hammer and lock style.

Looks a V nice gun, Mac.
I see a Ryan and Watson Birmingham, guns marked London.  (1799 -1820)_ so possible became Ryan & Son later.

Appears made as a detonator, so maybe  a bit later, say 1826-30??

Offline Macs69

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2020, 04:08:44 PM »
Pukka, I agree with you 100% that it was 1826-1830. I read in a Gunmakers of London book years ago that Ryan and Watson split right around 1825, and that Ryan built with his son in the 1825-1830 time period (if I remember correctly).

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2020, 04:18:45 PM »
I just received a lefty 8 bore gun, contemporay build.
Not sure what for but it intrigued me as I like large bore guns. Don't know who built it but did a good job with a very nice piece of curly maple.
Mark

Offline WESTbury

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2020, 05:32:04 PM »
Pukka, I agree with you 100% that it was 1826-1830. I read in a Gunmakers of London book years ago that Ryan and Watson split right around 1825, and that Ryan built with his son in the 1825-1830 time period (if I remember correctly).

Mac ---You seem to be more than a little knowledgeable about this fowler. What additional info are you looking for?
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Macs69

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2020, 06:08:35 PM »
Hi Westbury. What I posted is really the extent of what I know about it. Always looking for more info from someone more knowledgeable than me (like Pukka above). I would like to get the group's thought as to value (I know that this is very subjective, but would like to get some ideas).

Offline WESTbury

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 06:27:37 PM »
Mac---It is a great looking fowler. I'm quite sure that someone on the forum may be able to give you a ballpark number.

I would also check out some of the past auctions at Morphy, Amoskeag, Rock Island, etc. One of those houses has got to have something similar.

Good luck with it.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Feltwad

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 06:29:56 PM »
Must ask this question  the gold inlay Ryan  & Sons it looks to me it has been added  for that on a fowler is exceptional. I have restored several fowlers by this maker but have never come across the inlay on the barrel just plain Damascus with a gold band on the breech plug
Feltwad

Offline Macs69

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2020, 07:07:34 PM »
Feltwad, I can say that at some point, some small wood repairs were done (you can see these if you look close on the pictures). They appear neatly done. With regard to the gold fill of the signature on the top flat, it would really surprise me if someone did that (based on cost, etc), but you never know. Someone that was very handy might have had some material that they wanted to dispose of, and had that brilliant idea to fill in the signature. I would say that they would have to have been a masterful gunsmith, based on the quality of the job, and the fact that there are no signs of any interruption on the adjacent surfaces. I would tend to think that it has been that way for a long time. And, I got the fowler at a local gun shop, and it was on consignment as part of an estate sale. It hasn't been groomed to pull premium money or anything, if that makes sense.

I just think that it was a very high grade piece from jump, given the quality of wood, checkering (that is now worn down), engraving, etc. It's very cool that you have restored some pieces by this maker. Would love to hear more thoughts from you, and share more pics if you would like.


Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2020, 06:15:54 AM »
Mac,
How long is the barrel?
With it being nice quality, I wonder if it served as a live pigeon gun?   
Guns made for this sport normally have no provision for a ramrod, but I wonder with the gold signature, if it was purchased possibly with this sport in mind?
Now if the barrel is good and long, (hard to tell How long from the photo)   it will likely be a wildfowling piece as you suggest.

Best,
Richard.

Offline Feltwad

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2020, 12:22:51 PM »
Records show that Ryan And Sons were in business from  1820 -1835  Birmingham .  From 1820-1823  at 32 Wittal Street  then 110 New Street 1824-1835,they were most renowned for  Fowling pieces , Rifles and Airguns , and also pistols in different calibres .
Feltwad

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 05:27:48 PM »
 No big mystery why these big bore fowlers often pop up in such good shape. There just aren’t that many people out there that will take the punishment one of these can dish out on a regular basis. I supervised the acquisition of a large antique firearms collection for our local museum. These guns were originally acquired during the depression in exchange for groceries, at a rural general store. Out of the nearly thirty antique arms, the only pieces that didn’t  show extensive damage from use, and subsequent field repairs was four heavy market guns. There was an 8 bore, two 6 bores, and a 4 bore, all were all in pretty good shape.

  Hungry Horse

Offline snapper

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 06:04:37 PM »
Might of missed it, but what is the condition of the bore?  Pits on the inside?  Dents?   Extent of both.

For me that is a big factor in value.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline Macs69

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2020, 08:56:09 PM »
Thanks for the information, all!

Bore looks great. Clean and shiny, and no dents.


Offline snapper

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Re: Thoughts on this 8 bore fowler circa 1825 London
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2020, 09:54:56 PM »
Since we are all learning here.....the platinum vent plug.   What are the general dates that those were used?   I assume that they are more common on a earlier gun.

Thanks

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill