Pleased but Confused

[ToddCook]

Today is the first chance I've had to shoot since trying Daryl's crown treatment. I wore out a 2" orange dot at 50 yards and was really pleased. Still am really. I'm still fairly new at this and it was the best flintlock shooting I've done yet. Our season opens Oct 10 and if I miss a deer it won't be the guns fault. But when I picked up the patches they were not at all what I expected. The grass was high so I only found a few of them.

Green Mtn barrel. .54 cal, .530 ball and .22 denim patch with neetsfoot oil.90 gf ffg. Not sure what to make of it.

[Daryl]

Yikes!  Badly cut on loading, it looks like & thus not sealing.
Can you take a closeup of your muzzle, Todd?

The accuracy sounds quite good for starters.
How was the patch material measured?
 It looks like blue denim.
What was loading like?

[bob in the woods]

How old are the patches ?   Did you perhaps prelube them and they have sat for some time ?
I only mention this because I've seen patches lose their strength over time when lubed and then stored.
Otherwise, I agree with Daryl .

[EC121]

Load a ball just into the muzzle with a big piece of lubed patching then use the patching to pull it back out.  Look for cuts for cuts in the patching.  Your patches almost look rotten or really undersized(thin) instead of cut.

[Stoner creek]

Try a thinner patch. It will load easier too. Denim is pretty thick. That barrel will shoot.

[ToddCook]

I soaked them in neetsfoot oil and then put them in a plastic bag a week ago. I used reloading calipers. The jeans are not new but not badly worn either.

[Joe Stein]

It could just be the denim. I've had some that I bought new, washed and tumble dried, as I do to all my bulk patching, and used as I normally do. that would not perform in any of my guns, no matter how I lubed it, or what powder charge. The denim just looked like it blew up like yours. Maybe bad weaving, or whatever. It was supposed to be 100% cotton, and burned like cotton, with no sign of any synthetics in the fibers.
Try different denim or ticking, or canvas, and see what happens.
On the other hand, since the rifle is shooting accurately, and if it is consistent, maybe you shouldn't worry.
-Joe Stein

[Mike payne]

Try some linen I used cotton ticking for years accuracy was ok but patchs often looked like that.
I switched to linen accuracy improved and patches are intact after firing.

Mike

[Don Steele]

The denim material you are using is too weak for that much powder. I've experienced similar results with a rifle that shot great with a 45-50 gn charge of 3f. Recovered "striped pillow ticking" patches looked fine...all was well.
When I increased the charge into the 80-90 gn range my recovered patches looked just like yours....shredded. I went to NEW denim material, purchased a couple yards at a time, hot water washed (twice) and my recovered patches look fine again.
Test some new denim. 10 oz, or 12 oz...both generally work well.
If you wish, PM me an address and I'll send you a piece of each you can cut, lube and try. I buy mine at Jo-Ann fabrics.
With good bench technique and a decent rest that barrel will do better than 2 in. at 50 yds. if your eyes and sights are up to it.

[heinz]

Do not use worn out levis for denim patches.  The worn fabric is inconsistent in strength and thickness due to washings and wear.  Consistency is the key to accuracy.  Get new denim, wash it without bleach.  I tumble dry mine but you can line dry but do it the same all of the time.  I prefer "feater-proof" pillow ticking but that is hard to find these days.

[Daryl]

All good suggestions, Todd and your muzzle looks fine.
So - it's either the patch material or harder then pure lead balls.
Test seating a ball into the muzzle with a lubed strip of that material, then pulling the ball out to examine
the material is always a good test of your muzzle treatment and the patch material.  If the material tears
as you attempt to get the ball out, it is or has been weakened, or if it has cuts from the lands, same thing.
 
Secondly, is this material 100% cotton? Many "jean' denims are not 100% pure cotton.

Oh - I also see you used material from the front - the thigh. This area is subject to a lot more wear and tear
than is the back of the leg. When I cut up old jeans for patch material, I ONLY use material from the back of the legs
as the front is most often weakened.
This alone could answer to the condition of the 'spent' patches. Harder than pure lead with such a "decent" combination
may also attribute to the cutting.  With that muzzle, as I see it, there should be no cutting of the patches, but that is happening.

[Panzerschwein]

Look fine to me.

If you’re getting under 2” at 50, then it’s clearly working for you.

Who cares what the patch looks like if they’re grouping so well?

[577SXS]

I just had same issue with a 58 caliber I had built this spring but never got around to shooting it. Today when I went to load it I noticed I hadn't polished the crown and when I tried to load it the normal size .570 balls would not start and it was cutting the patch. I dropped to a .562 ball and it loaded OK but patches blew like yours. I shot fair groups but knew it wasn't right. Went to shop and wrapped 320 grit emory paper around a ball and started working on the crown. Got all edges broken and smooth. Went back to shoot and tried the .570 ball again. Started a little hard but went down bore fine. The first three shots were in the same hole. Patches were normal with one with a ting cut in it. I'm going to polish crown again with 400 grit and JB scrub the bore again. I should be good after that.

[ToddCook]

I tried the short started ball trick. Also, I can scratch the lead with my thumbnail fairly easily. Very weird. I will try some new denim later this year and maybe that will fix it up? I sure do appreciate all the advice. These things have a learning curve for sure.

Our season starts next Saturday and for a 50-60 yard shot it will hit a tennis ball, so plenty good for a whitetail. I need to get a couple of them in the freezer and then I'll start experimenting again.

[Don Steele]

Todd,
Get out there and enjoy your rifle.
With the kind of shooting you anticipate, you are going to be just fine.
You’ve got “ minute of Deer” and the season is upon us. Get in the woods and enjoy.
Wish I could join you. Around here, on this forum a lot of folks require better precision than that.
My best 50 cal flintlock hunting rifle, fired from a rest @ 50 yds put 10 balls in a hole I can juuusssst about cover with a quarter. 
Enjoy your rifle Todd. We’re looking forward to a picture with a nice Whitetail you’ll harvest.

[EC121]

I found some sanding sticks in the plastic model dept. of Hobby Lobby.  They are oval and will lay right in the grooves and lands.  They aren't too aggressive.

[skullcap]

All ideas and suggestions given are real possibility’s.   Here is another. I personal find happen and have to remember to pay attention to   After loading a clean gun and shooting say 5/6 shots  the gun will form a fouling ring just  above the powder where the ball sets.  So on loading if you do not seat that ball past the fouling ring your load will have space between powder charge and patched ball.  This will be enough to blow out the patches.   Find some blown some not      Rick

[flinchrocket]

I bet that material has a polyester blend and the heat is burning your patch up.

[Tilefish]

I also have a 54cal green mt barrel. I was shooting 110gr of 2f Goex with a 10oz denim new from joann fabric. Shot patches were coming back perfect and accuracy was very good. I recently ran out of Goex and had a fewpounds of Swiss 2f. Dropped the load down to 100gr and my patches came out looking like yours all blown. Went to 12oz denim problem was solved patches came back perfect and accuracy also increased. It is a little tighter load but worth it with improved accuracy. Mink oil is also the lube used.

[Daryl]

I tried the short started ball trick. Also, I can scratch the lead with my thumbnail fairly easily. Very weird. I will try some new denim later this year and maybe that will fix it up? I sure do appreciate all the advice. These things have a learning curve for sure.

Our season starts next Saturday and for a 50-60 yard shot it will hit a tennis ball, so plenty good for a whitetail. I need to get a couple of them in the freezer and then I'll start experimenting again.

That piece of material looks a little stressed & old, fuzzy with wear, but appears to be OK.  The proof is in the shooting, however it did fail at that.  Balls soft enough to scratch easily should be fine as well.
Back of the legs should be OK.

[Leatherbark]

It has been my experience that some old denim will not make good patches and will burn through easily. I guess the fibers are just weakened from all the washing machine cycles.  We have had really good luck with JoAnn's canvas for patching.  No burn through at all.  I treat mine with moose milk and let them dry and load them dry with a swab in between shots.  I do this for maximum accuracy if I want to shoot groups from a bench.  Other than that they are loaded wet with Lehigh and shoot without swabbing.

Bob

[alacran]

I have been shooting Jo an's cotton drill #40. I had not used this 58 cal barrel since I changed over to the drill from .020 Teflon.

I shot at Taylor's squirrel target with it. I had shot at it before with my .36 rifle so you can see that there are two previous shots wit the .36.
The big hole is 5 .570 balls shot offhand at 25 yards using the drill patch material. However when I picked up my patches they had burned and frayed edges not much better than yours. Since you can get just about anything to shoot good at 25 yards, I'm going to try Jo an's 10 oz denim and see if I get better performance out of the patching. These shots were taken with 80 grains of 2f Goex.
Hunting loads are going to be 120 grains of the same and these patches will probably be shredded with such a load.
Plan on going to Jo An's today, calipers in hand. When I prepare patches I will post results at 50 off of sticks.

[Daryl]

I'd say that would be a good experiment, alacran.  When I visited Jo-anne's fabrics in Yuma, Ar. they had only 11oz. denim. I was quite surprised to see
that as I've only seen 6, 8, 10, 12 and 14oz. here.
I would bet that 11 oz. would shoot better with .010" smaller ball, than will the 10oz.

[alacran]

Daryl I'm in the Peoples Republic of Illinois right now and the Denim I found at Jo an's was 12 oz I've washed it once, and I'm going to  make a few strips with it and then wash it again and see if there is a difference.

[Daryl]

12 and 14 is what my .69 "likes" with the .682" pure lead ball.
It also shoots well with a .677" WW ball and the 14 ounce denim.
My mic, spun on the ratchet runs the 14 ounce right at .031". Taylor's
mic runs the same material at ,033". Thickness #'s depend very much on technique
and equipment. I measure OxYoke store-bought patches .003" to .004" thinner than
what they call it. I measured both their .018" and .020" at .015/.016" with my calipers.