Author Topic: Barrel Search  (Read 1597 times)

old dog

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Barrel Search
« on: October 08, 2020, 09:00:08 AM »
Planning to build the Martin Sheetz gun I posted pictures of a few weeks ago..It is 44.5 inches long and I believe .45 cal.  It is swamped but not much.  It is 1.045 at the breech and .957 at the muzzle.  The smallest demension at the waist I can find is .912at 14.5 inches from the muzzle.  I don't see anything very close to that on the Rice website.  I have the preconceived idea that I want a barrel of those dimensions.  I have heard a lot about Ed Rayl but it looks like he is hard to reach and I imagine he has all the work he wants for  a lifetime.  Could I get a straight barrel and have it machined to swamp dimensions?  I would appreciate thoughts on how some of you learned pros would handle a clients request to match a barrel that does not seemingly exist>
Thanks, Old Dog



Offline alacran

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2020, 02:52:00 PM »
Ed Rayl is not hard to reach. Jason at Rice is easy to reach, so is Charlie Burton, and Bobby Hoyt. I would suggest you call these folks up, and be patient. These men are running noisy shops. Might take more than one attempt.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline stuart cee dub

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2020, 03:26:39 PM »
   Looking at your dimensions and the caliber Old Dog I think a rifle with that small of a bore and that dimension of barrel would be heavy for caliber . The old timers were stuck with soft forged iron and whatever skill and luck ,they, or someone could muster that week forging a barrel , maybe thinking if the 1st borehole showed occlusions and pits they could keep reaming it till they found a nice clean bore to rifle .

   Now if you really want that barrel it can be made or you could even hand swamp it draw filing it l . Some of the skilled machinists can chime in but machine swamping the barrel might put stresses on the barrel .
 
   Personally I would pick a close- is- good 44'' stress- relived barrel and look at the barrel weights before ordering .If what you were looking at is still too heavy (c' weight at .45 ?) I would consider going up to 50 cal .The particular details, the stocking, the wood , the inlays and the furniture is what I would be focusing on with the idea of making something very very close , in his style, maybe made a few months before or after .

  I've never really been fully happy with anything i've built but the guns I liked better were the ones that handled the best .Some originals were very fetching but absolute tanks to handle and nose heavy which were joy killers .

  There is an apocryphal story about the introduction of the gun to Japan ...It seems that one of the crew of the 1st European ships threw a gun overboard one day .This was seen by the Japanese on shore who immediately sent a guy to retrieve it as they wanted this technology very much and upon securing it took it to their best metal smiths to duplicate it . Turns out it didn't work . The European  who threw it overboard did so in disgust at it wasn't working and that the Japanese  had copied it so closely they duplicated the defect.
 
   No one would throw a gun overboard of course and no smart Japanese metalsmith would make a flawed weapon but the story does remind me that not everything built back in the old days was so great .( and of course it plays to the ''copy it'' prejudice some times deserved sometimes not )

If I were building the gun for a client I would have them source out the said barrel as it might be years in the making , cost way more than a regular well made swamped barrel , or end up being overweight ,none of which is in their interest but I'd let them figure that out on their time and money not mine . It's your project of course.

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2020, 03:37:12 PM »
Charlie Burton FCI barrels will make you whatever you want.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2020, 03:44:12 PM »
I’d buy a Rice 44” swamped barrel, taking into account the advice about weight above. We seldom get to build real bench copies of originals. It’s fun but in the end, it’s likely that another gun very like that was made by that gunsmith with a different style lock and a barrel of different dimensions. They probably did not have a rack of barrels with those precise dimensions.
Andover, Vermont

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2020, 04:29:54 PM »
  Just curious but I know you want to be accurate. But besides you. Who would actually care if your barrel is a few thousands off from  the original  ?  But I will second Charlie Burton for your barrel maker.   Oldtravler

Offline deepcreekdale

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2020, 05:35:21 PM »
Back in the good old days when I was young, poor, and dumb I swamped my own barrels on a grinder and draw filed them to final dimensions. (Anybody who remembers the steel in Douglas barrels knows my pain) If you are that dead set on those precise dimensions, that would work. But I agree with Rich here, it is not like each maker had specific dimensions for their barrels. They used what they had available and I am willing to bet that no builders barrels were identical from rifle to rifle. But, if you have more money than time any of the barrel makers listed here will do a fine job, I have used them all.
”Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.” Theodore Roosevelt

old dog

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2020, 07:49:03 AM »
Thanks for sharing gentlemen.  I  even put out a call to grandpa Martin, but hven't heard back yet.  I'll have to explore some of your suggestions
Let you know what I decide.
Old Dog

old dog

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2020, 11:49:20 PM »
Emailed Charlie Burton last night.  Got a reply this morning.  Reasonable price.  Delivery 6 months. 
Thanks guys.
Old Dog

Offline Dave B

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Re: Barrel Search
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2020, 07:59:38 PM »
Wow, only 6 months. go for it. I had a customer ask for a set of swap out barrels for a halfstock rifle/fowler with flint breachs. It took 2 yrs for the custom barrel maker to get me the barrels. They were beautiful and the customer was n no hurry and knew what he wanted so it is what it is. Sounds like a cool project.
Dave Blaisdell