Lock Recognition

[JLSawyer]

Hello,

I have a nicely made Hawken rifle with the barrel marked “P Hobbs”. I finally took it apart last night to see if I could find out the barrel and lock maker. The barrel has no makers mark except the number 18 on both the barrel and the breech plug where they meet. The lock is marked “WM  7 HH” and all the integral parts have a number 7 on them.

Can anyone here tell me more about it? I’ve posted pictures for reference. Thanks for the help.

[Mike Brooks]

Probably Hershel House.....

[JLSawyer]

Probably Hershel House.....

I wish! Lock plate appears to have been forged from an old file. Bottom edge still has remnants of teeth. The hammer and internal parts appear to be hand forged as well.

[Bob Roller]

Don't know made this one but I know for sure who did not.
Bob Roller

[JLSawyer]

Don't know made this one bit I know for sure who did not.
Bob Roller

Mr. Roller,

In your expert opinion is this a poor lock design or a good one? 

[Bob Roller]

It is not a bad lock and pretty well is about what is found on many American
muzzle loaders.Workmanship is nothing to look at so I would call it "average"
which can be defined as "The best of the worst or the worst of the best"
The WM stands for William Morgan,a Texan who marketed it as a kit and this
is the plain version.The other had engraving on the plate and hammer and
the name "J&S Hawken".I used a lot of the "engraved" ones and made my
last one in March of 2019.I used only the hammers and plates from the J&S
parts.


Bob Roller

[JLSawyer]

After some more research I think the barrel was made by Hopkins & Hobbs and they also may have assembled the lock from a William Morgan lock kit and stamped it “HH”. I also think the overall rifle was built by Tom Hobbs of the Baltimore area who has since passed away. Anyone know anything about Mr. Hobbs’ work?

Thanks again.

[sqrldog]

The H H probably stands for Harold Hess as he once owned the William Morgan molds. They later went to Jerry DeVuidralle (not sure of spelling). Harold Hess may have assembled that lock since it is marked with his initials.

[Bob Roller]

The H H probably stands for Harold Hess as he once owned the William Morgan molds. They later went to Jerry DeVuidralle (not sure of spelling). Harold Hess may have assembled that lock since it is marked with his initials.

You might be right here.Harold Hess gained control over a number of moulds including
the Chet Shoults  Ketland as well as the Russ Hamm Maslin plus others.He was also known
to sell parts made from moulds that were supposed to be exclusive to anyone who wanted them.
The Maslin lock moulds were paid for by Bill Large and everyone but Bill got parts from them.There was
not a lot of money involved and Bill was not really mad about it.Jerry Devaudreuil got most if not all
of the moulds after Hess passed away and after a long run sold them to a shop in Pennsylvania and
later had to repossess them for non payment.I have heard that Jerry is in bad shape now and no word
about all these moulds he owns.I hope someone will get them and maybe continue selling these pne
of a kind parts.I no longer need them but they shouldn't go to a landfill either/
Bob Roller

[Dave R]

HH possibly may be Hoppy Hopkins which had a barrel making shop back 30+ years ago in Ocala Florida??

[Joe Stein]

HH possibly may be Hoppy Hopkins which had a barrel making shop back 30+ years ago in Ocala Florida??

H&H Barrels started out as Tom Hobbs and Hoppy Hopkins. They used to shoot at the same club my father and I shot at.  I don't know if they ever made any locks, but maybe this is a one-off lock.  Tom Hobbs died of cancer in the late 1980s or early 90s. His wife Anne was still around in the early 2000s. I don't know if they had any children, but the P. Hobbs on the barrel makes me wonder about a possible connection.
-Joe Stein