advice on milling machine

[deepcreekdale]

I am in the market for a light duty benchtop milling machine for such operations a making peep and adjustable sights and other similar small items. I have been looking at the HiTorgue Mini Mill sold by Little Machine Shop. It is an upgraded version of the ubiquitous Chinese made ones available from multiple outlets. it has a bigger table, a more robust column and a few features they added to improve performance. Anyone have any experience with these or similar machines? I am not a machinist and don't want advice on how to machine a driveshaft on a 426 Hemi or why Chinese stuff is not as good as a $10,000-$20000 used 5 ton version that someone worked on in a factory in the 1950's (I already know that). I have a 7 X 10 Harbor Freight lathe that has given excellent service within my needs for such things as machining tumblers odd ball cleaning jags and making fancy cock screws. I would like something to supplement that machine around the $1000 price point.

[44-henry]

They are decent machines. I bought one of the first when they came out for one of my labs at the university It has an R8 spindle so that keeps tooling reasonable. It has limited Z clearance so you will want a lower vise and probably a set of shorter screw machine drills. Certainly capable machines for light work on the smaller size.

[smallpatch]

I’ve got one of the Harbor freight models, and if you’re careful, it will do a good job on sight dovetails and other light tasks.
44 is right though, not a lot of room for a vise, so keep it small.

[Scota4570]

I own a 1930's Index Mill.  It is about 3/4 size of a common Bridgport.  I use it on a weekly basis.  I use it a lot for stock work.  I also use it for typical small jobs in metal; breech plugs, lock plates, dovetails, making sights, and such.
IT is sloppy.  The slop is very annoying as far as making accurate cuts with the hand wheels.  I have to be very careful to not "climb mill" and ruin a part.  When you have slop if you forget the tool will grab the part and fling the whole table to the other end of the dead zone in the hand wheel.  Typically that ruins the part and breaks the cutter.  Bigger is better.  Bigger is more accurate and makes a better finish.  Bigger is more mass and less surprises.
 Keep in mind that if you do not have a coolant pump you need to run slow quill speeds, otherwise you will smoke the tools.  I will buy a full sized Bridgeport with a DRO after I move.  You can get a basic used old real mill for around $1000 if you are patient. I expect to pay double that.  Budget Chinese machine tools are usually pretty awful.

[Bill Raby]

Get the largest heaviest machine that you can. Go for one with an R8 spindle if you can. The vertical clearance usually ends up being more important than you would think.

[Bustedknuckles]

I use a pm-25 from precision mathew.
It's the next size up from the usual harbor freight mill, better built too. Good customer service. For the price I could have got a worn out bridgeport, but I don't have the room for that.
 I can do a bit of milling with it, nothing to heavy. If I keep the gibbs snug, it'll make some ok cuts. I wouldn't want anything smaller, but I do more than just sight dovetails with it.
If i did want a smaller milling machine, I'd have bought the one you mentioned, i think that's the best setup in that size range.
Also look at the taig machine, I think it's probably lighter, but more precise.
Good luck with your search!

[Gunnermike]

I have a Grizzly G0463, which is considered a Sieg X3 size machine similar in size to what you are looking at The Little Machine Shop. The X3 machines have R8 spindles.  Hopefully the machine your interested in has a larger table than mine (Grizzly no longer sells mine, which I bought in 2005).  I'm not sure which machine you're looking at because most of them are listed as 'High Torque' at the LMS.  My mill table is 23" long and I consider that the absolute minimum length to be useful, get the longest table you can afford.  My machine is about 350 lbs. & I took it apart to move it to it's table - they're not that small!  On a Bridgeport you can easily cut .100" off steel in a pass but on the my size machine it's more like .010 - .020" a pass.

This is a photo of the common Sieg X3 machine with a 6-1/2" x 23" table



When I bought my machine the next machine size up was I think a Rongfu 45 which is about twice as heavy and DRO was not very common on small mills then.  I'd recommend to buy the largest machine you can afford & with digital read-out, you won't regret it in the long run.

I have a friend that always reminds me that "you can dial a big machine down, but you can't dial a small machine up!"  Sad but very true.  I'd look at the Precision Mathew machines also like Bustedknuckles suggested.

Good luck, Mike

[L. Akers]

I recommend a mill-drill from Smithy by Detroit Machine Tool Co.  I have a model MI-329M.  It has a dovetail column, 32"X 9" table. 1-1/2 horse motor, Z-axis DRO and weighs about 700 pounds.  They have a sale going and you get almost $1,000 worth of tooling to boot.

[Dennis Glazener]

I would look at the current Jet  mill/drill machines. I bought one about 45 yrs ago and the only problem I have had was just recently I had to replace the collet drawbar, I stripped the threads, cost me about $25 including shipping for replacement.

Amazon lists them and other brands with free shipping.
Dennis

[deepcreekdale]

Thanks for all the tips. It is greatly appreciated. I do not have any desire for a larger machine, I have no plans or need for a larger mill, I don't want to pack my workplace with a larger  one and do not something weighing hundreds of pounds either. Operations I have a need for a milling machine are very small, like making tumblers, something like  facing lockplates would be the largest operation I can imagine. Certainly don't plan on doing anything like stock work with it. I have enough hand tools for that and greatly prefer them to using a machine and could probably do it faster with them  than the time it would take to set up a machine anyway.. Gunnermike, your advice is helpful, LMS notes they increased the size of the table on their machine for the very reasons you mentioned and claim it is the largest table of all the SIEG made machines. I also appreciate all the other suggestions, I will certainly look them up before making a purchase. But, I am not really interested in a old used machine. I am sure an experienced machinist could make them work perfectly, but I am a retired RN, not a machinist. I do love to learn new things but I go slow, read the directions twice, think things through and then proceed with care.

[FDR]

I would look at the current Jet  mill/drill machines. I bought one about 45 yrs ago and the only problem I have had was just recently I had to replace the collet drawbar, I stripped the threads, cost me about $25 including shipping for replacement.

Amazon lists them and other brands with free shipping.
Dennis

I have a Jet bench mill also which I bought about 40 years ago.  Like Dennis zero problems after a lot of use. It is all you will need for the tasks you describe.

Fred

[Sidelock]

I have one of the Hi-Torque mills from LMS - 3990.  Got it used for a good price.  I had a limited footprint of floor space that I could dedicate to another work station in the shop, so the size of this machine was perfect for my needs.  So far, any milling or precision drilling job that I have needed to do with muzzleloader construction, from making locks to milling custom breech plugs from round stock, this small mill does the job.  It is slow, you get tired of cranking the bed back and forth on some jobs, and the short vertical height is sometimes a limiting factor.  On those rare occasions that I need a larger mill for jobs, I have buddies that let me use theirs.  I did add DRO's for the X,Y & Z axis to this mill - I recommend that add on.  LMS sells those as well. 

[tallpine]

You might consider a good quality milling vice attachment for your lathe. I own a full size mill but I prefer the lathe for small intricate work

[P.W.Berkuta]

I have a Grizzly floor model tool room mill and it does all that I need it to do. If you are looking for a bench top mill I would look at the Precision Mathews line of machines. Go to Blondihacks web channel and watch her discussion of her machine and her use of it. She does amazing work with it. The mill info starts about 6 minutes in <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaFyMduoeMY> and <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyuG-B95PQs&t=1071s>

[Bob Roller]

My V mill is a 53 year old Clausing Model 8520 that I bought new in 1967.
It's 1920's technology but it works for me and in its "day" it was considered
to be THE tool room mill and there was a waiting list to get one.It took six
weeks for mine to get here but I had full use of Bill Large's machinery anytime
I needed it Right now my metal cutting 80 year old bandsaw is very ill and all of
the smoke escaped from the motor and I must replace it with a new and smoke
filled motor this week.Right now the 4 orders I have for triggers are on hold.

Bob Roller

[Metalshaper]

My addition would be not to cheap out on the Mill Vise!  Get the best you can find/afford.
working with a sub-par vise is a miserable experience.

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

[Not English]

Buy a good older Bridgeport. They're pretty easy to rebuild and shim the gibs. It doesn't sound like you have a need or NC controls. Buy larger than you think you need. You'll always end up doing more than you originally envisioned.

[jerrywh]

I bought a old Jet mill drill about 25 years ago and it works pretty good but I always wished I had bought a bigger mill. If you are a serious builder you will probably be the same.

[45-110]

Big ditto on a manual Bridgeport, you just can not go wrong with that choice. I also do not even bother with my Rockwell drill press any more for drilling, tapping etc. The mill is the go to machine for planning wood too with a 3" 3 flute face mill.
kw

[Acer Saccharum]

The machine Mike posted.


This has a head that has dovetailed gibbed ways. When you raise the head, the spindle stays in alignment with the work. This is the best of the small machines I've seen.

Stay away from machines with a round column, because you lose the orientation to your job when you have to raise or lower the milling head.

[44-henry]

Bridgeport are nice, I have six of them in my University lab, however they are not easy to move for most people and take up a lot of space and often require additional electrical work. Around here they sell at fairly low prices and round column mill drills often bring as much on the used market because of the problems associated with moving the larger mills. I believe the original poster was looking for something smaller. I still feel for what he says he wants to do the LMS version of the mini mill is the way to go. If you have the space and equipment to move it though a Bridgeport (or the highly desirable Clausing mill) would be desirable. A former student of mine just bought a fully loaded Bridgeport with 3 axis DRO, collets, two milling vises and a rotary table for $1300, the owner also gave him a milk crate filled with end mills and shell mills/arbors many of them new. Deals are out there.

[P.W.Berkuta]

The hobby garage/basement muzzleloading gun builder will not take advantage of a full size milling machine nor have the room and electrical power source for it . As for moving it that is another issue . I have a 2 ton cherry picker to move my lathe and mill around when the need arises and all that stuff takes up room. Yes - the full size mills can do the small jobs and the large jobs but as a hobby muzzleloader gun builder how many parts will require the use of a large machine. I'm not a fan of the DC motor which most of the bench top machines have but if you buy the right QUALITY machine you can do a LOT with them. Yes - it is nice to tell your friends that you have a full size milling machine and they MAYBE impressed but is it worth all the hassles and cost to move and set them up even if the cost of the machine is reasonably low ? Only you can make the final decision

[deepcreekdale]

The hobby garage/basement muzzleloading gun builder will not take advantage of a full size milling machine nor have the room and electrical power source for it . As for moving it that is another issue . I have a 2 ton cherry picker to move my lathe and mill around when the need arises and all that stuff takes up room. Yes - the full size mills can do the small jobs and the large jobs but as a hobby muzzleloader gun builder how many parts will require the use of a large machine. I'm not a fan of the DC motor which most of the bench top machines have but if you buy the right QUALITY machine you can do a LOT with them. Yes - it is nice to tell your friends that you have a full size milling machine and they MAYBE impressed but is it worth all the hassles and cost to move and set them up even if the cost of the machine is reasonably low ? Only you can make the final decision

I think that is the best advice so far! I have built longrifles for over 45 years without one so it is not a need, more of a fun to have. Was thinking of it for a retirement gift to myself. You are right, my shop is too small for anything bigger. I have had fun and have learned a lot turning small parts, facing tumblers etc on my benchtop lathe but have no fantasies about being a machinist. Even the smallest one weighs over 145 lbs, which is above my lifting capacity and probably above that of my wife if I don't beat her hard enough first.

[Acer Saccharum]

Generally speaking, the heavier the machine, the smoother the cuts, and higher accuracy. A heavy machine will handle cutting steel better than a light one.

The dovetail column is the way to go. Stick with a manufacturer where you will be able to get spare parts, like elevating gears and bearings.

Many import tools have such sloppy threads, the fasteners loosen up all the time. It's best to go look and handle in person the machine you're considering. Also read the website reviews.

[davec2]

I'll just throw in my 2 cents in the category of full size machines.......I have used Bridgeports....great machines.  But I have purchased a Spanish made (Lagun) copy of a Bridgeport and found it to be a better, more easily repaired and maintained machine.  I bought a full size Lagun with a ton of tooling and accessories for $1000 even not very long ago.  Second, I have moved many full size machines over the years often having to rent skates, jacks, trailers, etc., to do the job.  I discovered that professional machinery movers could do the job faster, easier, better...and fully insured....than I could possibly move my own machines....and without all the sweating and swearing.  It turned out to be much easier..... and cheaper..... to have a machinery mover with the right equipment and truck do the job.  Just a thought