Best shape for a target pistol??

[Justin Urbantas]

Hey folks.
I'm getting parts and plans together to build myself a target pistol for serious pistol competition.
This will be for 25 and 50 M one handed shooting.
It will be fitted with a single set trigger.
What's the advantage of the spur on some of the trigger guards?
Which style do you find most comfortable, and conducive to match accuracy?
Here are a pictures of a few common styles. I think I like the idea of the saw handle grip.

[Bob Roller]

About 25 years ago i made a saw handle flintlock pistol for a man in Lousiana and
he did well with it.He is now deceased and I think it had a hook style trigger guard
with a plain trigger.
The 2nd caplock pistol is similar to a Weber&Reusch Swiss target pistol and I made
about 125 locks of a very similar style for the shop of Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen
Germany.I prefer the saw handle type.The caplocks from Herr Mohr were 31 caliber and used 8 grains of powder.
Bob Roller

[Gunnermike]

I find that a more trim grip suits me better than the slightly flared grips of the first 2 photos you posted.  Here's a very nice John Probin pistol - 9 inch barrel x 15 inches overall









Of course the big problem is finding parts or you could just scratch build it like Runar!  As far as the saw handle goes, I've seen people complain on another forum that they weren't allowed to shoot that grip at local meets - go figure? (it is a target match right?)  I believe the smaller calibers like .36 and .32 are more popular now because the reduced recoil in a match is like shooting a .22LR when compared to a .45 caliber.

Mike

[hortonstn]

I believe you have to design the grip to fit your hand then design the pistol around that
Just my opinion

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The nicest shooting target pistol I've made features a saw-handled stock.  The spur on the guard of those pistols does a couple of good things, ie:  it deals with that big middle finger that takes up so much room on the grip, and allows that strong finger to pull the pistol back into your grip.  The saw handle further steadies the firearm and doesn't allow the pistol stock to roll down into your palm when fired.  It also allows one to put the rear sight a long way from the front one which makes the gun easier to hold on target...it diminishes the effect of human error (tremor) in the grip hand.
A simple trigger can be tuned to give very fine crisp let off, but not as fine as a good set trigger.
This pistol has a 1" x .50 cal. x 10" long barrel, a Hawken hooked breech, and an L & R lock (plate filed down as much as possible to diminish its size).

[Daryl]

Justin, while I agree the third pistol down should be the best shape, both Taylor and I have shot perfect scores (50/50) with his Hawken-styled .60.
 Both of us have had extensive training shooting revolvers and this likely shows in using this design.  The French-design with or without the saw
handle is likely better suited (or useful) for people who are good shots, but have not benefited from handgun training. Each to his own on this
but I find the Hawken style very easy to shoot accurately.


Mine is fairly easy to shoot as well.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

To follow up Daryl's comments, I have learned to shoot my Hawken styled pistol fairly well.  It has a .60 cal. 9" Hoch barrel x 15/16" AF.  I made the set trigger and used a Pete Allen lock.  This past weekend at Cach Ck., I missed only one of the targets on their trail, and I still feel myself standing there blinking, wondering why I missed...I thought it was a 'gimmy'.
Here's a picture of the pistol and the ALR Postal match I shot with it a few years ago.

[B.Habermehl]

 Although I don’t have any pictures to post, I built a saw handled pistol for a gentleman named Ken in Canada. He has won some events with it I’m sure Taylor knows him. He now has two barrels for it a small bore and a large bore. The small bore barrel didn’t ring trail walk targets with enough authority. As a result he lost some disputed hits. Being a staunch competitor, that wouldn’t do so he had the larger caliber barrel fitted. BJH

[Justin Urbantas]

I really wish I had access to a dozen pistols to find one that fit the best. I do have rather large hands, so that is a factor.  I don't have any training in pistol shooting, but I'm a good shot. I think right now it's between that saw handle with a spur guard and the LePage grip. Either way, I'm using the John Bailes locks. I shot Taylor's Hawken pistol, but it didn't feel just right for me.

[Gunnermike]

Make a quick study piece out of pine (2 boards glued together) and shape the handle until it feels right, clamp a pipe to it to get the feel you're looking for.
Mike

[Daryl]

Although I don’t have any pictures to post, I built a saw handled pistol for a gentleman named Ken in Canada. He has won some events with it I’m sure Taylor knows him. He now has two barrels for it a small bore and a large bore. The small bore barrel didn’t ring trail walk targets with enough authority. As a result he lost some disputed hits. Being a staunch competitor, that wouldn’t do so he had the larger caliber barrel fitted. BJH

Yes- we know Ken, BJH & he is a really good shot.  He's been trying to get Taylor to sell him his Hawken Pistol for many years.  I don't think Taylor has been beaten at Hefley, in the ML pistol shoot
when he's used that pistol. I know dang well I didn't beat him in the "ML" pistol shoot. However, BP revolver was another matter.  I borrowed one of his guns, shooting his
ammo. What a nice brother!
Justin, the spur guard PePage is a tremendous pistol design. Very easy to shoot well. I think the spur is why I shoot Taylor's pistol so well.

[alacran]

What do you consider serious pistol shooting competition? If you mean shooting one handed as in Bullseye, and NMLRA pistol matches, any of those styles would work. The one caveat is if you want to shoot the Kentucky pistol aggregate. That requires your pistol to be saw handled. There a few other requirements related to sights, but set triggers are allowed.  By NMLRA rules all pistol matches are to be shot one handed, except those shot on the primitive range. I prefer a  saw handled design and I can be competitive with that style.

These are my two target pistols. They both have 11 1/4 inch 13/16th .45 cal barrels.  I can't remember the exact weight, but they are two ounces apart.  They both have set triggers by Larry Akers.

[L. Akers]

With all due respect to Alacran, no matches at friendship REQUIRE a sawhandle grip.  On the other hand, the Traditional aggregate FORBIDS a sawhandle grip and specifies a plowhandle grip.

[alacran]

Larry is quite right, I meant to say plow handled. As you can see both my pistols are plow handled.
 I guess that is what happens when you can't sleep and post at 2 am. By the way I really like his triggers.

[Bob Roller]

Good looking lock on the Probin.I still have a pattern for that style and made
7 of them.I didn't make the sliding safety but did make a 4 screw fishtail bridle
on all 7.

Bob Roller

[Justin Urbantas]

As far as serious shooting, I meant one handed bullseye shooting at national and potentially international matches.  I wonder why the traditional matches don't allow the saw handles. Do they shoot too well, and it isn't fair to everyone else?

[Hungry Horse]

 A long time ago a friend inherited a couple of old muzzleloading pistols, and being young and dumb we decided to take them out and shoot them. One was a brass barreled Belgium made pistol with a blunderbuss style smoothbore barrel. The other gun was a saw handled .40 cal. Pistol marked Parker on the lock, and London on the barrel. That .40 cal shot better than any modern made muzzleloading pistol I’ve shot since. I suspect the stock design has a lot to do with it being easy to shoot, along with it not being some ridiculous caliber.

  Hungry Horse

[alacran]

As far as serious shooting, I meant one handed bullseye shooting at national and potentially international matches.  I wonder why the traditional matches don't allow the saw handles. Do they shoot too well, and it isn't fair to everyone else?

Saw handled pistols can be shot in Unlimited matches. You will be competing against inlines with adjustable sights as well as just about any permutation of single shot ML pistols.  Pistols for International matches have to comply with NMLRA rules which for the most part are the same as the traditional pistol rules with a few exceptions. If your pistol complies with the International rules it complies with the Traditional pistol rules.
 By the way to shoot an aggregate you also need an as issued revolver unless you are shooting Unlimited which allows for adjustable sights on the revolver. But to answer your question Saw handled pistols are not considered traditional by the NMLRA.
You can find the rules on their website.

[A.Merrill]

   You may already know this but I'll tell you anyway.  A pistol that handles and aims well has a grip with a 45° degree angle.
   Back in the late 70's in a Muzzle Blast magazine I seen a flintlock pistol with the lock setting backwards.  In other words, they took a lefthand small Siler lock and inlet it on the right side of the stock. This brought the barrel and lock back above your hand and wrist area, I guess this would give you more balance and may reduce the kick from the lock.  I just remember it was an interesting pistol and I would have liked to have shot it.
   Like I said it looked interesting but it may not have been a good target pistol,  IDK.  Good Luck.  Al
     

[hanshi]

I've had handgun training and became an instructor myself.  A couple of c&b revolvers have graced my den but years ago this is what I had made.  It feels good in the hand and points naturally for me.  A two hand hold usually handles better for my shooting.  I'm under the impression this grip style is maybe older?  I requested this grip style in lieu of a plow shape.

[Bob Roller]

Along comes this and now I know I have seen everything

Bob Roller

[Gunnermike]

Have you seen this Bob?  I found these photos many years ago, not sure if you'll be happy or sad but the lock has 'ROLLER' on it. Marked TA 8/64. Looks like a fine target pistol & I guess he thought enough of you to use the best, so he used your lock.






Mike

[Bob Roller]

That to me seems like a very good job of tailoring a pistol to ONE person's
hand.The lock is one of my Shoults/Ketlands and my name on the outside
had to be a request from the first buyer.False muzzle as well.I make no claim
to the triggers but have thought about such a design.I am pleased to see some of
my work on such a fine piece of craftsmanship.I am sorry now that I didn't get some
extra frizzens for this lock an d have no idea as the status of these moulds now.
Thank you for posting this for all to see.
Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi Guys,
No revolvers please.

dave

[T*O*F]

I've got just what you need.  Walnut blank rough cut to a TC Patriot pistol.  11/16ths barrel channel cut.  A spurred Patriot trigger guard would complete the combo.  It's a proven design with plenty of wood to shape it to your hand.