Author Topic: How rare is a Kentucky rifle with a brass barrel? (Read 7541 times)

Avlrc · « **Reply #25 on:** October 23, 2020, 02:16:53 AM »

I don't see any Roush gunmakers in Curt's book.

Loudy · « **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2020, 06:02:04 AM »

Nothing discovered yet indicating that Michael Roush ever built a rifle during the six year period of time he resided in Stephenson Co., IL prior to his death. The biographical sketch above indicates that he was quite busy working to establish a homestead for his family. However, while in IL it’s very possible and even likely that he used his gunsmith skills to repair firearms for his family, friends, and neighbors.
Loudy

Buck · « **Reply #27 on:** October 23, 2020, 06:52:51 AM »

Mark,

Lena Illinois is not a town I would have thought to come up in discussions here. Joe M lives in the next town south of Lena, I’ll see if he’s ever heard the name.

Buck

Loudy · « **Reply #28 on:** October 23, 2020, 07:01:37 AM »

RBS,
Is the barrel on your rifle swamped at all, or is it straight sided? One reason I can imagine for using brass versus iron for a firearm barrel would be resistance to corrosion. I recall reading somewhere that brass barreled firearms where often used in coastal or nautical service. Same reason why stainless steel barrels have become popular on modern guns. There are also plenty of reasons why you wouldn’t want to use brass for a barrel. The relative softness of brass was already mentioned. In addition, I’m guessing pound for pound brass was quite a bit more expensive and more difficult to obtain than iron. Another reason for not using brass would be weight. Brass weighs about 10% more than iron. No gunsmith would intentionally make their firearm heavier without compelling reasons. Some metallurgist out there can probably provide additional good reasons for not using brass for rifle barrels related to engineering properties such as metal fatigue, tensile strength, ductility, etc. Despite all this, I still think brass barrels are very cool looking on a longrifle!
Loudy

Loudy · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2020, 07:43:12 AM »

Buck,
Yes, who would have ever guessed Lena,IL would have popped up in this thread! Funny. For some reason Stephenson County, IL was a popular destination in the 1840-1850 period for many families desiring to remove West from Snyder and other surrounding counties in Central PA. Probably had something to do with cheap fertile land.
Loudy

Ps. As a side-note, I have a nice Sam Loudenslager built Snyder County style longrifle that turned up in Lena, IL. It was found buried in the wall of an old farmhouse between the studs behind the plaster and lathe. A contractor was blowing insulation into the walls when the rifle was discovered.

GrampaJack · « **Reply #30 on:** October 24, 2020, 12:14:24 AM »

In the auction write up are they saying the barrel is made up of 3 pieces?

rbs · « **Reply #31 on:** October 25, 2020, 07:45:56 AM »

Loudy, I'm not sure as to answer to your question re shape of barrel. Its octagonal to round but looks "straight" to me.

RBS

WESTbury · « **Reply #32 on:** October 25, 2020, 07:39:41 PM »

Quote from: GrampaJack on October 24, 2020, 12:14:24 AM

In the auction write up are they saying the barrel is made up of 3 pieces?

I took a Screenshot of the rifle from the auction site. It is not the best quality picture by a long shot. The section of the barrel between the arrowheads "appears" slightly different in color from the muzzle and the rear portion of the barrel. The front 3 or 4 inches looks much darker in color and the rear of the barrel looks just slightly darker. It is probably a lighting effect or perhaps a reflection.

Daryl · « **Reply #33 on:** October 25, 2020, 11:17:01 PM »

Appear to be joint lines at the arrows, on my monitor.

Dan'l 1946 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 26, 2020, 12:29:33 AM »

Just decorative rings, maybe?
Dan

Tanselman · « **Reply #35 on:** October 26, 2020, 02:27:54 AM »

I previously owned a brass barreled Kentucky rifle, curly maple with patchbox. The family came from VA to KY, then later to IN, but no information on where they acquired the rifle. The barrel was well rifled, 7 groove if I recall, and had an absolutely perfect joint at about the middle point, maybe 45/55 split, almost invisible unless you knew it was there and looked for it. I thought it might have been made by Andrew Knight, born about 1776 in NC, who migrated west and ended up in Indiana. Some of his work, and that of his sons, looks somewhat similar, and the Knights were inventive and capble of about any kind of gun. Maybe the current owner will see this thread and respond. Shelby Gallien

Loudy · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2020, 06:00:49 PM »

I came across the interesting old newspaper clipping below. Poor guy John Bennard lost his brass-barreled fowler (equipped w/ silver sight). I wonder if anyone ever turned it in for the reward?

FYI, the Library of Congress website www.chronicalingamerica.loc.gov is a great search engine for historic newpapers articles. Warning... I've found this website to somewhat addictive.

Reference: Gazette of the United States, & Philadelphia Daily Advertiser, Philadelphia, PA, September 26, 1797

homerifle · « **Reply #37 on:** October 27, 2020, 02:12:12 AM »

There was one that sold about 5 or 6 years ago at one of the auction houses. As well as I can remember it was full stock full octagon brass barrel with about 3 or 4 inches of iron barrel at the breech. Signed Cook or Cooke.
Seems to me that it was attributed to the northern end of the Shenandoah valley or maybe as far north as Chambersburg Pa.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #38 on:** October 27, 2020, 10:00:51 PM »

Wayne Elliott sent these and asked me to post them for others to view. I hope he will comment.
Dennis

Comment from Wayne:
My guess is that the rifle was made south of Virginia, perhaps in the Carolinas by a gunsmith who trained in Virginia.

Overall length 58"

barrel length 41 1/4" slight swamped

.43 caliber

Best regards,

Wayne Elliott

gif image host

homerifle · « **Reply #39 on:** October 28, 2020, 12:50:47 AM »

Thanks Dennis, I'm pretty sure that's the same rifle. If the signature is Cooke or Cook. You got a good rifle there Wayne!

Tanselman · « **Reply #40 on:** October 28, 2020, 04:54:38 AM »

That rifle is the one I had years ago and referenced in a response above. It has no signature on the barrel. Interesting comment by Wayne that he thought the gunmaker may have had roots in North Carolina. Andrew Knight, whose later work has some similarity to this rifle, was born in NC. Shelby Gallien

WElliott · « **Reply #41 on:** October 28, 2020, 06:04:40 AM »

I no longer own the rifle pictured above, but while I owned it I had those excellent photos taken by Ric Lampert. It is one of the many rifles that I have owned and wish I still did. Shelby probably feels the same way about the many that have passed through his hands over the years.

Loudy · « **Reply #42 on:** October 28, 2020, 04:22:53 PM »

Wayne,
Regarding the rifle you previously owned, do you think the brass portion of the rifle was threaded onto the iron breech portion? Or was they butted together and brazed? I have read elsewhere that many of these “brass” barrels were actually cast bronze like cannon barrels. Thank you for making the photos available.
Loudy

Eric Kettenburg · « **Reply #43 on:** October 28, 2020, 05:36:13 PM »

I would also like to know. I would be beyond shocked if there was no threading involved and they are still in one piece!

JTR · « **Reply #44 on:** October 28, 2020, 08:13:46 PM »

Well, that's a fine looking rifle, and I have to say that is the First time I've ever seen something like that!

Makes something like the thought of a percussion drum blowing out seem trivial!

Tanselman · « **Reply #45 on:** October 29, 2020, 12:06:06 AM »

The joint in the barrel of the rifle I once owned appeared to me to be a threaded joint with a VERY fine solder line at the joint. Shelby Gallien

Daryl · « **Reply #46 on:** October 29, 2020, 02:42:25 AM »

That is the way I see it on my monitor as well, Shelby.
Notice the iron or steel breech section is joined to the brass barrel. So, if that joint, there likely would be no
problem with the same rifle-smith putting in a piece in the middle, as well. It does appear to have different colour,
more yellow at least to the muzzle piece and the lines are the dividing points in this change of colour.

Tanselman · « **Reply #47 on:** October 29, 2020, 05:42:13 AM »

The two brass sections of the barrel were/are uniform in color, very uniform brass composition. Any color differentiation is from slighly different levels of oxidation along the barrel.

One interesting observation on this brass barreled rifle. I left it standing in the corner of a closet for several years, muzzle up, and a couple years later noticed what appeared to be a very slight bend in the barrel that I had not noticed before...which I always thought was caused by the gun leaning against its muzzle for that extended time. Shelby Gallien

WElliott · « **Reply #48 on:** October 29, 2020, 06:43:34 AM »

I believe that the rifle I once owned is the same one previously owned by Shelby, and I also believe the steel and brass portions of the barrel were threaded together.

Loudy · « **Reply #49 on:** October 29, 2020, 08:14:22 PM »

FYI,
I have been trying to find a non-destructive test method for definatively distinguishing between brass (copper/zinc) and bronze (copper/tin) alloys. Some of the bronze alloys can visually look a lot like brass. So far, no luck finding a simple conclusive test. However, I did come across an interesting article on the subject from Popular Science magazine published in May of 1930. See p. 93 of the magazine at link below:

https://books.google.com/books?id=OigDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=92&f=false

Moderators can move or delete if I am straying too far from the topic of the original post.

Loudy

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Author Topic: How rare is a Kentucky rifle with a brass barrel? (Read 7541 times)