Author Topic: To turn or not to turn  (Read 2068 times)

Offline Dennis Daigger

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To turn or not to turn
« on: October 22, 2020, 01:19:17 AM »
My first bag is done with the exception of the rear seam that attaches the front and the back together.  The back has an inner pocket and an outer pocket that incorporates a belt loop.  The front has an outer pocket.




The gusset is sewn to the front and is slightly tapered from top to bottom.  The gusset reveal at the top is about an inch.



I have no experience with turning a bag right side out when the stitching is done so don't know whether the bag would be pliable enough to turn it when wetted.  It is a lot of thickness and the top opening is fairly small. Plan B is to simply use a visible seam attaching the gusset to the back.

I'm looking for advice from any of the experienced bag makers about how to proceed.

Offline EricEwing

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2020, 01:51:48 AM »
Ok after reading it like 2-3x I think I figured it out.
It’s very common to see bags of all types (muzzleloader bags and others) to have the front panel stitching turned and hidden, and the back panel stitching not turned and showing.

If that’s what you’re going for....
To turn that front panel to hide the stitching you’re gonna want to trim the edges of where it’s stitched a bit, using one of several types of tools for reducing and/or rounding edges. Then get it wet and carefully turn it without stretching it in any spots, like when you’re making a pizza and a finger pokes the dough weird. If your stitching was pretty neat and tight it will probably look fine.
Then lay the gusset on the back panel and stitch in a way it won’t be turned, and then trim/burnish the edges.

If I got it all wrong and you want to hide all the stitching, then get it wet and go for it I say, just be careful.

Online James Rogers

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 04:16:30 AM »
Very continental to turn the front and flat sew to the rear panel with binding. (Or just stitch, edge and burnish  like Eric mentioned) Makes a nice style and very functional. 

Offline Dennis Daigger

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2020, 03:02:31 AM »
Thanks Eric and James for the advice.  I got the pieces sewed in place and it all came out well.  I did a flat seam to the back. I also got the dye on and when it is dried I'll get some photos posted of the finished bag. I plan to add some pig skin binding to the flap edge and top edge of the front panel. Pretty basic bag but should be functional enough.  This has been a useful exercise and I have a greatly expanded appreciation for the fine work you folks do.

Offline Dennis Daigger

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2020, 08:58:54 PM »
The bag is finished and two problems are evident.  First, the dye took inconsistently and splotches showed up.  Most of the splotching went away when I applied neatsfoot oil.  The second problem was the bag flap turning quite dark on the outside when I applied oil to the inner surface.  The rest or the sewing went well and overall I'm satisfied. Advice for avoiding the dying and oiling problems will be greatly appreciated.




Offline jbigley

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2020, 06:11:38 PM »
Dennis--I think your bag looks great,  "irregular" dye colors and all. No problems there;  with use, it will become un-noticeable. The extra pockets, front and back, and the loop make it a bit more than basic, IMHO, so no worries there. Good job. As for the flap darkening when you applied the oil: I think that the grain side of most leathers tends to soak up oil, dye, etc. more readily that the flesh side, so...not a flaw, just nature. You "could" perhaps sink the whole bag into a bucket of neetsfoot and get the same color throughout, or maybe just oil the inside of the pouch and it might darken. If you wanted the flap to be lighter, you might try scrubbing --the inside of the flap , mostly--with saddle soap or something similar. I've had a similar issue with a Leatherman pouch, and the saddle soap lightened things up considerable. You could try additional coats of dye to even things out in the pouch body--Fiebing's Light Brown after a couple of coats turns very dark, especially if you oil it later on. These are just some suggestions based on my personal experience. Or, as an aside, you could just leave it the way it is, two toned. Looks fine, IMHO. TC Albert's book illustrates at least one, possibly more, originals that  were two toned like that.
Like I said, though, looks fine to me. Dern good work/ workmanship.  ;D --JB

Offline DougS

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2020, 07:11:05 PM »
Personally, I love the color and finish!

Very well done.

Thank you for sharing.

Regards,

Doug

Offline Dennis Daigger

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2020, 01:28:50 AM »
Thanks for the advice JB and Doug.  After looking for a bit I found helpful advice in another post for dying technique from Marc Hamel and wish he would do a video tutorial of his sheepskin method.  I used Tandy Eco-Flo and think if I had used Marc's method that I would have been ok.

Offline Marcruger

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2020, 03:19:33 PM »
Gee Dennis, I appreciate the call-out but I am simply standing on the shoulders of those who came before me and shared their knowledge.  Add to that a rather large pile of ruined leather that I've attempted and failed.  It is certainly part of the learning process for me.  I just threw away a knife sheath this weekend that came out......well.....not good. 

Controlling the finish has been my goal since my first bag.  A huge vote of thanks to James Rogers of course for his coaching along the way, and responding to my repeated cries of distress.  I dye and finish everything possible before assembly, and then touch things up afterwards.  It is much easier to get a nice, smooth even finish if it is laying flat.  You don't have to fight to get dye into the cracks either.  If I ruin one panel, I haven't wasted time and ruined a whole project. And I've ruined a ton of panels. 

I love the color of the body of your bag.  That looks rich and warm.  If it were me and that flap came out that dark, I'd go one of two ways.  1 - Cut off the flap but leave enough for a hinge at the top, and sewn on a new flap.  2 - Use Neatsfoot oil and Fiebing's antique glaze to try to creep the body of the bag closer to the flap color. 

In my experience, leather is like a pair of Pampers or a one-way sponge.  The unfinished/back/suede side will suck up any liquid you put on it, and deliver it in minutes to the finished side.  Conversely, you can slather stuff on the finished side and rarely see any evidence on the unfinished side.  Yep, I did this wrong in the past and ruined some leather.  See a recurring theme in here?  ;-)

I dye the backside of leather just enough to get some color and life into the look, using thinned Pro-Dye on a piece of sheepskin and scrubbed in.  I mistakenly tried oiling the unfinished side in the past, and suffice it to say that it did not come out well.  The oil goes on the finished side.  I was told by one very experienced leatherworker that you put Neatsfoot on a papertowel, and rub in a thin coat.  If it soaks in before 2-3 seconds, you can add another coat.  If it soaks in slower than that, you have fed the leather enough. 

I have not had any luck with the Eco-Flo dyes, but you seem to have gotten a nice color. 

Difficulty finishing the back, rough side of leather is why I line things now whenever possible.  Since you were already edging your flap, it would have been simple to line it first, and avoid dye work under the flap. 

Your construction work on the bag looks really nice. 

I hope this helps a little.  Feel free to give me a call.   God Bless,   Marc

Offline Dennis Daigger

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2020, 10:21:06 PM »
Marc-thanks for the thoughtful response.  The reason I referenced your work was because of the step-by-step detailed description.

I will dye before assembly in the future.  I didn't know how wetting would affect the color of a dyed piece of leather and assembled first.  Turned out any negative effects of wetting dyed leather couldn't have been any worse than what I got.

I think I'll just leave the bag as is and use it.  I am planning two other bags and will do things differently for sure.  I'll try your dye method on some scrap with the Tandy dye and see what results I get.  I especially liked the color I got with the Range Tan.  Is there a Fiebing dye that gives similar result?

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2020, 04:24:59 AM »
Dennis,  I think the blotchiness will dissipate as the oil migrates.

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2020, 05:22:14 AM »
Very nicely done.

About the only way i am aware of to avoid splotches is to dip each piece in the dye... But if you are using black or dark brown dye the interior of the bag is so dark its like a pit.

Getting a perfectly even coating of dye is exceptionally tough.

Mike

Offline Huntschool

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2020, 06:42:48 AM »
I like the color distribution.  It makes the bag more "home spun" to me
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Offline Bull Shannon

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Re: To turn or not to turn
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2020, 07:15:32 AM »
I like the color distribution.  It makes the bag more "home spun" to me

I second that.  It looks good, home made, purposeful.
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