Author Topic: Pecatonica Long Rifle Supply Kits (Read 7697 times)

canadianml1 · « **on:** October 25, 2020, 10:56:50 PM »

Thinking of ordering a SMR with inletting done. Has anyone built one of their guns lately ? Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

Scota4570 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2020, 11:19:25 PM »

I would only trust Kibler and Chambers to inlet a lock for me, in a kit. I built Pecatonica's Armstrong. It went smoothly, but I got one with no lock inlet.

I have no issue with Pecatonica. But, if you want a SMR why not get the Kibler? I have done four Kiblers. They are 99% done. They are unique as far as overall quality and parts fit. There is nothing better available.

FALout · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2020, 01:33:52 AM »

I like Pecatonica, the first true to form muzzleloader I built came from them. I’m working on a cherry Lehigh right now where I got the stock and barrel from them. They did a great job, slight fitting to get barrel into stock and the 5/16 ramrod hole was right where I wanted it, straight and close to the barrel channel to keep the lock area of the stock as thin as possible ( I had ordered it as just a blank with barrel channel/ ramrod cut in). I won’t get into who is better supplier wise, but Pecatonica supplies quality products. It doesn’t matter who I buy from, I also prefer stocks without the lock prep cut in, to me it’s easier to fit a lock in fresh wood then to fit it into a semi inletted opening.
Bob

borderdogs · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2020, 02:38:56 AM »

I have had two of their parts kits the first one I finished recently was a full stock Hawken flint in .50 and the second is a halfstock Hawken percussion in .50 I recently got. The halfstock I plan to try to copy the Jim Bridger Hawken I am working on a Don Stith light Hawken in .54 and following this I plan on building another Don Stith Hawken fullstock flint in .50.

I like dealing with Pecatonica they are easy to work with and I havn't had any problems with what they send me. I would buy from them again I would also recommend Don's parts sets he is easy to work with and knows a lot about Hawken rifles and is very free with his knowledge. The flint parts set from Don isn't inlet for the lock. Don doesnt have a parts set like what you are looking for but I wanted to mention him too.
Rob

Not English · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2020, 07:22:59 AM »

I have no experience with Pecatonica personally. When I was teaching a Kentucky Rifle building class through the local technical college, a number of students used them to inlet a swamped barrel in 10/4's slab. They did exactly as asked. I would recommend them and would definitely consider them for anything other than a straight barrel.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2020, 03:36:27 PM »

Another vote for Pecatonica. I've had them inlet both straight and swamped barrels. They do excellent work.

-Ron

Marvin S · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2020, 07:18:11 PM »

I done two last winter. One late Lancaster.40 percussion and one Tennessee.32 flint. Both had about all the pre inletting you could get and lock inlets were spot on but both guns are straight barrels.
Probably gonna try a pistol this winter. Pecatonica and sitting Fox are the left handers choice.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2020, 07:35:48 PM »

This is for those just learning... Just be aware of what you are getting with each supplier. For some historical correctness is important, while for others it's not. Superior design is important to some while others can't see it or don't care. Top notch fit and finish are important to some, while others don't mind inletting or fixing production mistakes. My point, be aware that product offerings in this industry are vastly different and even if they are endorsed by some, do your own research and decide what's best.

This isn't sour grapes on my part in the slightest. Our business is booming. I do sometimes wonder how certain suppliers keep selling product when there are sometimes far better options, but I guess you'll have this everywhere.

This isn't intended to offend anyone, but I just feel it's the truth and I think sharing that is a good thing.

Jim

canadianml1 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2020, 08:30:46 PM »

My experience assembling and finishing one of Jim Kibler 's SMR was great. The gun turned out great and was VERY easy to assemble. I have done five other parts list precarved stock kits: four from TOW and one from Jim Chambers. These are not easy but one will keep me busy all winter and will help to keep me sane!!!!

Marvin S · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2020, 09:37:41 PM »

I sure would have bought one of Jim’s SMR kits if it was offered in left hand.

Roughneck · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2020, 03:59:53 AM »

my first build was a Lehigh from Pecatonica. i did all the inletting besides barrel channel and ramrod. they treated me right and were great to deal with. i like those type of kits better cause i can adjust the fit to me but i guess that is personal preference. next kit i am going to get is maybe a Dunlap or Chambers. i have had a couple of the Kibler SMR & Colonial rifles and they are great. i only got one as a kit 2nd hand and it was super easy to put together. the only downside for me was i couldn't adjust the fit cause it is all already done for you.

steven baker · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2020, 06:09:29 AM »

Hi all, if Jim could export to New Zealand , I'd take two SMR , one for show , and one for go.

Take care ,

Steven

smylee grouch · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2020, 06:32:30 AM »

I and friends have bought from Pecatonica and have not been let down.I needed an extra wide (4") black walnut blank and they sent me a great chunk that was very dense and very fairly priced. I also endorse them.

canadianml1 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2020, 10:09:02 PM »

Thanks for all the responses!!

T*O*F · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2020, 01:04:31 AM »

Just remember that Pecatonica kits are shaped leaving ample wood to be removed in achieving the correct look for the rifle. You don't just screw it together and finish it. Considerable slimming of the forestock, wrist, and butt can be achieved.

canadianml1 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2020, 04:14:01 AM »

What are the differences between Pecatonica and TOW parts list kits if any?

FlintFan · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2020, 03:18:00 PM »

Quote from: canadianml1 on October 28, 2020, 04:14:01 AM

What are the differences between Pecatonica and TOW parts list kits if any?

TOW sells many of the Pecatonica stocks, they also have parts sets that have stocks from other suppliers such as Bob Lepley I believe. Some of the Lepley stocks are more fully shaped and inlet as compared to the Pecatonica offerings. However as some as pointed out, the more inletting and shaping that are done beforehand, the less you are able customize if desired.

It is going to come down to what you want to get out of this build. If this is your first build, the suggestions of a Kibler kit may be well founded. However if this isn't your first build, and you are looking to actually develop skills you can use down the road, there a lot of offerings out there that will help accomplish that such as those from Pecatonica.

GANGGREEN · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2020, 04:01:00 PM »

I don't have much experience with Pecatonica, but recently sent a piece of curly maple down with an order for two pistol blanks and kits. The communication was excellent and the kits came back as expected. I had initially asked for the lock inlets NOT to be done, but they called to confirm and at the last minute I told them to go ahead and inlet them because the kits are for Christmas gifts for my sons and I figured the less work I had to do, the better (I'm not that fast a worker and I have other projects ongoing). The inlets came back fine and the location will work (I'll need to inlet the barrel/breech deeper into the stock, which was by design on their part) but they were slightly undersized, so I still have to inlet them, at least to a degree. I guess the bottom line from my perspective and my limited experience is that their work is fine, but as others have said, inlet the lock yourself as it doesn't really create much work and gives you a bit of flexibility.

I won't have any hesitation to use them for upcoming projects based on my limited experience and what I've heard.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2020, 07:47:43 PM »

Okay... This subject can be frustrating to me. Many think that the product we make is the same as others, but more complete. At least that is the implication conveyed from many comments I read on here and other forums. This usually goes with the perspective that you will learn more from less complete rifle kit offerings. First of all what we offer is FAR more than just a more complete version of what companies offer! As I mentioned, if you care about historical correctness, great design / aesthetics or a kit not riddled with problems and mistakes you might want to reconsider offerings from others. If these things aren't appreciated or cared about, there are many choices.

My background is of course making high-end custom rifles, some of which have sold for five figures. I understand what quality is. The quality that goes into our kits is every bit that which goes into a high end custom rifle. I can't do any better making a custom rifle one at a time by hand. These have all the quality of a high-end custom rifle. This is not true with offerings from most any other company

Also, you would be shocked at the number of kits that were purchased and then put in the closet when people realized what was required to complete. This isn't just due to how far they were completed, but also due to mistakes that are par for the course with other manufactures.

My mind is blown when I see people purchasing product from certain companies where the quality is absolutely terrible! For example I can't believe certain lock companies can stay in business. But I guess enough people don't understand what quality is.

Look at the lock that Smart Dog just posted about. From my perspective the quality of this is awful, yet the vast majority would probably think it's just fine. Don't really know what more to say about this subject. Frustrating...

Marvin S · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2020, 08:07:27 PM »

My last Pecatonica parts set. .32 cal 3/4” ACF GM bbl L&R Manton style lock. Best shooting 32 cal I’ve ever had. Not perfect but not too bad either, I’m not embarrassed to show it.

FlintFan · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2020, 08:18:47 PM »

Jim, we get it. You have a very high opinion of your products, and rightly so.

That being said there are many other options out there. Saying you can not make a quality rifle from other suppliers parts is simply false. I do understand your complaint about locks, and that sentiment is justified to a varying extent.

Someone does not NEED one of your kits to achieve historical correctness, great design or aesthetics. With a few exceptions that can be achieved with any of existing parts out there in COMBINATION with research, practice, and maybe some guidance. Which is just how you got started.

If the OP wants to put together one of your kits so he can experience what quality in a lock and good design in a rifle looks like, that is great and it has been strongly recommended that he does so. If he wants to take the next step and move on to something else and learn the lifelong skills that it takes to be a competent gun builder, that should also be encouraged. I would suggest moving on to a blank, but it doesn't quite sound like he is ready for that.

One of your kits may be the perfect option in this situation.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #21 on:** October 28, 2020, 08:36:12 PM »

Quote from: FlintFan on October 28, 2020, 08:18:47 PM

Jim, we get it. You have a very high opinion of your products, and rightly so.

That being said there are many other options out there. Saying you can not make a quality rifle from other suppliers parts is simply false. I do understand your complaint about locks, and sentiment is justified to a certain extent.

Someone does not NEED one of your kits to achieve historical correctness, great design or aesthetics. With a few exceptions that can be achieved with any of existing parts out there in COMBINATION with research and practice. Which is just how you got started.

If the OP wants to put together one of your kits so he can experience what quality in a lock and good design in a rifle looks like, that is great and it has been strongly recommended that he does so. If he wants to take the next step and move on to something else and learn the lifelong skills that it takes to be a competent gun builder, that should also be encouraged. I would suggest moving on to a blank, but it doesn't quite sound like he is ready for that.

One of your kits may be the perfect option in this situation.

We have worked extremely hard on our products, acheived great results and that is why I have the opinion I do.

How many high end guns do you think are made with a Pecatonica kit or parts set? The answer is ZERO. I'm sorry Flintfan, you don't understand. The reason I do understand is that I am capable of making a high end gun and understand all the details that go into this. I don't think you could say the same.

Okay how about a Track kit you say? A slight step up but all I've seen don't have the best design and often have many problems with the workmanship. Could you make a 5 figure gun out of one of these? Perhaps, but you could probably only sell it to someone who isn't too knowledgable.

Now how about a Chambers kit. Many very nice rifles have been produced from these kits. Jim himself has made many that are beautiful. In my opinion, there are still issues with design on many offerings. This certainly could just be chalked up to preference, however. The bigger issue is the quality of the workmanship on these offerings. These are produced on duplicators and attention is not always paid to details and problems are often a result.

Add in locks to the equation and there's no comparison to our products and others. This isn't meant to be boastful, it's simply stating the truth. Like it or not it doesn't matter to me.

FlintFan · « **Reply #22 on:** October 28, 2020, 08:47:28 PM »

Quote from: Jim Kibler on October 28, 2020, 08:36:12 PM

The reason I do understand is that I am capable of making a high end gun and understand all the details that go into this. I don't think you could say the same.

Yes Jim, I could say the same.

Roughneck · « **Reply #23 on:** October 28, 2020, 09:10:21 PM »

Quote from: Jim Kibler on October 28, 2020, 07:47:43 PM

Okay... This subject can be frustrating to me. Many think that the product we make is the same as others, but more complete. At least that is the implication conveyed from many comments I read on here and other forums. This usually goes with the perspective that you will learn more from less complete rifle kit offerings. First of all what we offer is FAR more than just a more complete version of what companies offer! As I mentioned, if you care about historical correctness, great design / aesthetics or a kit not riddled with problems and mistakes you might want to reconsider offerings from others. If these things aren't appreciated or cared about, there are many choices.

My background is of course making high-end custom rifles, some of which have sold for five figures. I understand what quality is. The quality that goes into our kits is every bit that which goes into a high end custom rifle. I can't do any better making a custom rifle one at a time by hand. These have all the quality of a high-end custom rifle. This is not true with offerings from most any other company

Also, you would be shocked at the number of kits that were purchased and then put in the closet when people realized what was required to complete. This isn't just due to how far they were completed, but also due to mistakes that are par for the course with other manufactures.

My mind is blown when I see people purchasing product from certain companies where the quality is absolutely terrible! For example I can't believe certain lock companies can stay in business. But I guess enough people don't understand what quality is.

Look at the lock that Smart Dog just posted about. From my perspective the quality of this is awful, yet the vast majority would probably think it's just fine. Don't really know what more to say about this subject. Frustrating...

Mr. Kibler, i do not think anyone is down playing the quality of your kits or your commitment to your level or quality or your experience in the world of muzzloaders. they are definitely of high quality but that does not mean they are for everyone. i have owned a few and really liked them but they did not fit me so i sold them. i do not have your knowledge about flintlock rifles nor many other folks on here that build high end rifles but i have owned more than my fair share of high end rifles by many of the top notch builders on here. to me reliability, fit and accuracy are my necessities in a rifle while others may want historical importance. i am not a historian and do not claim to be one but i am a shooter and i love to shoot black powder flintlocks. also we need more blood in our sport so why not welcome all people who want to shoot your kits, factory rifles or whatever there choosing is??

your coming across as that if nothing else offered is of good quality to make a quality rifle and i completely disagree. i would not drop 5 figures on a rifle but i have owned some that originally sold for that. i do not personally know what it takes to build a 5 figure rifle as i do not have that kind of skill but i started shooting flintlocks with a builder that his rifles basically started a 5 figures and his talent is incredible. i just never saw myself owning one as i could not justify me spending that much on one. anyhow my whole point is there are plenty of ways to skin a cat and if someone chooses to build another kit that may or may not have issues then so be it, we should be happy to have more folks wanting to get into this sport!

canadianml1 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 28, 2020, 09:52:35 PM »

As I have said in a previous entry, I have built four TOW and one Jim Chamber's kits. They turned out pretty good but they all had significant issues that I had to work around. I am not complaining, but extra time and effort on my part was required to do stuff that I would have preferred to not do. Would I buy another kit from TOW or JC, yes but I know what I am getting into. In addition, I have considerable metal working and a good deal of wood working knowledge and skill so with time I know I can succeed with one of these kits.

But I believe Jim is right, I'll bet there are a good number that make unsuccessful attempts with other kits because they have insufficient skill and knowledge. Even as an mechanical engineer with the aforementioned skill and knowledge I find TOW and JC kits pretty challenging...........................and for me that's OK but for others undoubtedly not.

Marrying up wood and steel so that they fit together precisely is no simple matter. The thought and planning that went into manufacturing Jim's SMR kit is really quite extraordinary. Jim obviously knows what precision means and he employs the most modern CNC machines and a lot of thought to deliver it. A modest amount of care and skill is required to put his SMR together but not a lot. With a little care most reasonably capable persons can assemble it JMHO. And did I mention the rifle is beautiful.

The only reason I am considering a Pecatonica kit is that it will be a winter project for me. If I order another Kibler I'll have it done in less than twenty hours including finishing wood and steel!!!

What to do??? I know...............procrastinate!!

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Author Topic: Pecatonica Long Rifle Supply Kits (Read 7697 times)