Author Topic: about black horns (Read 7338 times)

frenchman · « **on:** August 23, 2009, 03:22:20 PM »

What can one do with black horns, i suppose i can forget about any scrimsaw, i have seen very few flat horns the one i saw was black. I am open to any ideas
Denis

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2009, 03:36:12 PM »

Besides great looking powder horns with the right combination of base plugs or tip shapes?
Gary

brokenflint · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:53:57 PM »

Could this not be scrimmed with white ink?

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2009, 06:05:45 PM »

I remember a vendor at Dixons this year that had a couple of great looking flat horns from black bison horns and they weren't very large either.
There are alot of uses for 'black' horns or pieces of them. Bands, or rings, tips for screwtip usage, tips carved for powder measures, etc. Horns sliced in half and get a couple of knife scales, flatten those pieces for 'bottoms' for salt/rum horns, etc. The usages of black horn is limitless. Gary

frenchman · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2009, 06:43:16 PM »

thank you so much for the ideas, then i will wait and see what comes up it's about 21 inch long and not to thick. It was easy to plug so it could make a nice flat horn.
Denis

Randy Hedden · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:08:13 PM »

Scott Sibley, "Big Bat", and his wife made a couple of great looking black Bison horn powder horns that were scrimshawed and filled with red ink. It made for very unique and beautiful powder horns.

Randy Hedden

Jerry V Lape · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:33:14 PM »

Black horn could surely be scrimmed but I think it might be misery trying to see the black cut on the black horn to get the scrim correct. I will have to try a piece just to see how difficult that might be. Anyone scrimmed a black horn with advise or tips to make it easier?

bigbat · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:03:42 AM »

I have read where George Catlin decorated buffalo horns in red. I suspect he used his "typical" Catlin art on them. Then there are two buffalo horns that were found in Ireland decorated in red of the French and Indian war period around Fort Pitt. I suspect they were far more common in the east then is accepted. I missed a buffalo horn built in a F&I war period method years ago on E Bay. It was out of Maine. I personally enjoy building a "horn of color"

Brian · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:29:37 AM »

I'd love to find an all black (truly black) horn for left carry, nice double twist, about 16" to 18" long so I could (someday) make a powder horn out of it. Cow type horn - not buffalo. Been watching, but so far I've never seen one that was all black. If anybody knows where one could find such a thing I'd appreciate knowing.

elk killer · « **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:20:08 PM »

black horns make for a good carving base..
something besides the normal shrim..

Randy Hedden · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:51:48 PM »

Quote from: bigbat on August 24, 2009, 05:03:42 AM

I have read where George Catlin decorated buffalo horns in red. I suspect he used his "typical" Catlin art on them. Then there are two buffalo horns that were found in Ireland decorated in red of the French and Indian war period around Fort Pitt. I suspect they were far more common in the east then is accepted. I missed a buffalo horn built in a F&I war period method years ago on E Bay. It was out of Maine. I personally enjoy building a "horn of color"

Scott,

I remember a couple of years ago you and I and a couple of other guys were involved in a thread on another message board talking about eastern style buffalo powder horns. We were able to recall 6 or 8 such horns in various museums/collections. Although probably not considered eastern powder horns, I have also seen several of what I call "St. Louis School" buffalo powder horns.

I agree that eastern style buffalo powder horns were probably more common in the 18th century than what is represented today. I have made a couple of eastern style buffalo powder horns, but they seem to be a hard sell for me. I think Gary Elsenback has also found these style of horns to be a hard sell??

People who purchase powder horns today, mostly reenactors, seem to be firmly entrenched in the idea that all eastern powder horns started with a white horn. On my table at the recent CLA show, I had an 18th century eastern style buffalo horn with a white screw tip and a black walnut chip carved butt plug and it hardly drew a look from anyone. I am working on another large 18th century eastern style buffalo powder horn that will probably become one of my personal horns unless someone gets excited about it and talks me out of it. I don't see that happening, but one never knows.

Randy Hedden

James Rogers · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:08:43 PM »

Quote from: Randy Hedden on August 24, 2009, 04:51:48 PM

Quote from: bigbat on August 24, 2009, 05:03:42 AM
I have read where George Catlin decorated buffalo horns in red. I suspect he used his "typical" Catlin art on them. Then there are two buffalo horns that were found in Ireland decorated in red of the French and Indian war period around Fort Pitt. I suspect they were far more common in the east then is accepted. I missed a buffalo horn built in a F&I war period method years ago on E Bay. It was out of Maine. I personally enjoy building a "horn of color"

Scott,

I remember a couple of years ago you and I and a couple of other guys were involved in a thread on another message board talking about eastern style buffalo powder horns. We were able to recall 6 or 8 such horns in various museums/collections. Although probably not considered eastern powder horns, I have also seen several of what I call "St. Louis School" buffalo powder horns.

I agree that eastern style buffalo powder horns were probably more common in the 18th century than what is represented today. I have made a couple of eastern style buffalo powder horns, but they seem to be a hard sell for me. I think Gary Elsenback has also found these style of horns to be a hard sell??

People who purchase powder horns today, mostly reenactors, seem to be firmly entrenched in the idea that all eastern powder horns started with a white horn. On my table at the recent CLA show, I had an 18th century eastern style buffalo horn with a white screw tip and a black walnut chip carved butt plug and it hardly drew a look from anyone. I am working on another large 18th century eastern style buffalo powder horn that will probably become one of my personal horns unless someone gets excited about it and talks me out of it. I don't see that happening, but one never knows.

Randy Hedden

Randy, That is very scary! Just last night as I was working on a bison horn from a local herd, I was thinking of that very thread from a few years ago and how I wanted to proceed with this horn for an eastern styling.

bigbat · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:44:39 PM »

Many times its all about knowledge. Many people have to be educated or made aware of the facts. I agree about the desirability of horns made of "the wild ox" over the domesticated version. Theres a few out there that have open minds and are willing to speculate. Makes life interesting. I owned one of those "St. Louis school" buffalo horns at one time. Paid $65.00 for it at Friendship from Roy Keeler also got a real trade axe head for $25.00 from him.

Randy Hedden · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2009, 08:08:04 PM »

Quote from: Brian Dancey on August 24, 2009, 06:29:37 AM

I'd love to find an all black (truly black) horn for left carry, nice double twist, about 16" to 18" long so I could (someday) make a powder horn out of it. Cow type horn - not buffalo. Been watching, but so far I've never seen one that was all black. If anybody knows where one could find such a thing I'd appreciate knowing.

Brian,

When I used to be able to order steer horns out of Texas, I would order a couple of hundred at a time. I would always get a pair or two that were basically black in color. However, it seems like I never received any black double twist horns. I think that steers with the black horn color variant also grow horns that only have one curve in them. I have gotten black horns that were 28" to 30" long and not a hint of a double twist. On the other hand I have received a very few large white steer horns that have three twists in them. The third twist sounds unique for making a powder horn, but they are always way to long for making a powder horn and I ended cutting off the third twist to get a powder horn of manageable length.

Randy Hedden

Brian · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2009, 12:06:12 AM »

Thanks for the info Randy. I guess there just are not very many black cow horns suitable for our purpose around. I didn't really realize how rare they are until I started looking for one. I did see one on e-bay once, or at least it was advertised as such, but I found it just as the sale was ending and before I could bid on it the game was up. It looked like the real thing, although I guess it could have been phony (dyed or something).

Ah well, not life or death. I may run into one yet.

Randy: Did you get those pictures? I wasn't sure if I had the right address.

bigbat · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2009, 01:40:01 AM »

Here is what i mean when i say an early styled buffalo horn. The pouch, which is one of my favorites, is made from a pair of cathy's moccasins, you can see her foot print if you look closely.

Randy Hedden · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2009, 01:45:49 AM »

Brian,

I did get the pictures. Thanks for taking the time to send them to me.

Randy Hedden

smorrison · « **Reply #17 on:** August 27, 2009, 06:16:12 AM »

Scott,
Looks like the butt plug is secured with wooden pegs and iron staples? Nice looking horn and shooting pouch.

Scott M.

Randy Hedden · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2009, 06:23:57 AM »

Quote from: smorrison on August 27, 2009, 06:16:12 AM

Scott,
Looks like the butt plug is secured with wooden pegs and iron staples? Nice looking horn and shooting pouch.
Scott M.

Scott M,

The small staple is to repair a crack at the butt end of the horn.

Randy Hedden

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #19 on:** August 27, 2009, 06:33:48 AM »

Scott, that's a nice horn and together with everything else makes a very nice package. Great idea to recycle mocs. Nice touch to repair a crack with a staple, or at least it looks like a crack.

From time to time I work a bison horn and I'll get a couple of areas where I notice theese small white streaks. I figured its a characteristic of the horn as much as anything. 99% of the time I'm able to scrape them away and assumed I didn't thin the horn as much as I should have in the beginning. I've had other individuals that said even after doing that they will come back. So far none have, but,,,,,,,. Have you noticed anything like this with this horn?
Thanks,
Gary

bigbat · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2009, 07:14:43 AM »

The buffalo horns we are getting today are from young bulls, too young. The harsh way in which they are collected and taken off the skull,many times leads to these cracks. I see young bulls in Yellowstone with much nicer horns than you can buy. If the horns came from older bulls you can work out those cracks as the horn walls are thicker. This horn is close to a very early styled buffalo horn I saw on ebay and missed. The pegs are split and carved of oak and the staple stablizes an existing crack. I really cherish this pouch. Thank You for the compliments.

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Author Topic: about black horns (Read 7338 times)

brokenflint

smorrison