Ball and Patch Size

[Seth Isaacson]

I know that generally we want a tight fit overall by combining the ball size and patch size. Some use balls .01 smaller than the bore and others use .005 smaller. Is there much of an advantage to either method or is it just a matter of what works best in a given rifle? I know the .01 smaller balls with thicker patches can be easier to load, or at least that has been my experience. My .45 pistol is easy to load once started with .44 balls and a .018 pillow ticking patch. My rifle is .47, and I have some .465 balls, a mold for that size that came with the rifle, and have been using .015 patches. These do shoot well, and I haven't been able to get the rifle out to shoot much, but it was difficult to load after the first few shots. Swabbing  after a few shots of course helped. It doesn't look like .46 balls are readily available. The next size down is .457. Would .457 balls and a .18 patch likely work alright or will that be too loose and allow fouling to build up?

Thanks guys.

[smylee grouch]

I would try the 457s and if they shoot ok your set. If they seem too small you can order a Jeff Tanner mold in 460.

[Daryl]

In a .47 calibre rifle, I would be using the .465" ball and a 10ounce denim patch. I measure those at .021" with my new calipers, compressed, and
.0225" with the older calipers, the jaws compressed on the cloth between forefinger and thumb.
This is the same combination we use in most rifles - .005" undersize and 10ounce denim. These patches are thick enough to handle heavier hunting loads as well.

[Mike_StL]

I would try the 0.457" diameter balls with a thick patch such as Daryl's 10 ounce denim.  They will be a bit small, but should be easy to load.  The most accurate load is likely to come with the 0.465" balls and the 0.018 to 0.022" patching.

[hanshi]

The .45 I have seems to take the .440" and .445" with equal ease using the same patch material.  It certainly may come down to what the rifle likes.  The patches used run about .023" compressed.

[WadePatton]

A smaller ball with thicker patches carries more lube and is less likely to blow out or burn through than a thinner patch with a larger ball in the same bore if the charges are stiff.

What works best is best, but those are some considerations.

[Seth Isaacson]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I'll probably order the smaller balls and get my hands on a few more varieties of patches and just experiment with it more and see what works best overall. The .465 balls and .015 patches I have been using certainly shoot just fine. I couldn't even start a .465 ball and .018 patch unless I wanted to literally hammer it in probably, so maybe its just a little under .47. Hard to say. Its an antique rifle with a rather well-worn bore. I don't have a good pair of calipers to get a very accurate reading at home and haven't slugged the bore.

[Daryl]

Many "original" barrels have very narrow grooves.  It might also be that the muzzle is quite sharp or it might be
filed out on lands and grooves as some appear to be.
I would use a ball .010", even .015" smaller than the bore, but use a substantial patch.
Anything thinner than .020" is NOT what I call substantial.
The more snug the combination, the more accurate the shooting will be. I would think that with a water based lube, something
between 55gr. and 65gr. will likely be the best load for this rifle.

[Seth Isaacson]

Many "original" barrels have very narrow grooves.  It might also be that the muzzle is quite sharp or it might be
filed out on lands and grooves as some appear to be.
I would use a ball .010", even .015" smaller than the bore, but use a substantial patch.
Anything thinner than .020" is NOT what I call substantial.
The more snug the combination, the more accurate the shooting will be. I would think that with a water based lube, something
between 55gr. and 65gr. will likely be the best load for this rifle.

Narrow and relatively shallow grooves is the case. Thanks for the input. I'll have to try a few things out and see what ultimately works best. With the .465 balls, .015 patches, and 50 grains of 3f, I was able to keep it on target with that load offhand at 75 yards and I don't regard myself as a marksman by any account  , so accuracy so far has been just fine. I am just hoping to find something that is both accurate and a little easier to load consistently. I'll give the .457 balls and thicker patches a try when I get the chance and see if that performs better overall. If not, I may just need to occasionally clean between shots, try more/different lube, etc. Thanks again!

[Daryl]

Good luck with it and keep us posted.
Sounds promising so far. With the .465" ball and .015" patches, were you able to load without having to wipe?
If it was getting crunchy, possibly more or wetter lube, or a slightly thicker patch is indicated. Getting hard to load
means the patch is not doing it's job, which is not only to "take" the rifling, buy also to soften the fouling from THAT shot
so the next load goes down without problem.
If the bore is a bit rough, a slightly smaller ball and thicker patch is indicated. This thicker patch will hold more lube and allow
more or easier compression of the load.

[Seth Isaacson]

I could load without wiping, but it definitely got considerably tougher after a few shots even once it was started. My patches were greasy but not wet, so maybe I need use some extra lube. I'll give I'll try adding some more lube to the patches next time out and also get my hands on other patch and ball options.

[Daryl]

Looking forward to hearing your results.

[Fillwa]

A lot of great advice already stated. FWIW: I use a .010 under ball with a .010 generously lubed patch and 20gr (45acp shell full) of corn meal between powder an patched ball.
I don’t wipe between shots and usually shoot 15 to 17 shots before final clean up.
Accuracy and grouping is acceptable.

[Daryl]

Interesting ball and patch concept.  We're having a postal match.
 Please feel free to enter. It is open to all forum members.
BTW- welcome to the forum Fillwa.