Author Topic: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle  (Read 3818 times)

Offline Sidelock

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Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« on: October 30, 2020, 03:58:29 AM »
Thought I would share some photos of a rifle recently completed.  I have received much inspiration over the years from works that others have posted here on ALR, possibly someone can gain a little of the same from this post.

This is an iron mounted Virginia style rifle that loosely follows a blend of designs found on original works by Klette, Lauck as well as some contemporary interpretations of those by others.  The heart of this rifle is a C wt. Colerain Classic American barrel in .54 cal X 42”.  Lock is a Deluxe Lg. Silar, triggers are Davis #4 double set.  Butt plate, trigger guard and the four piece patch box are commercially produced pieces that I have had laying around in the shop for years.  Got them as a set from another builder who left the business quit some time ago, I suspect they are several decades old.  Thimbles, sideplate, end cap, front sight and wrist mounted peep sight are all shop made.  Piece weighs 8 lbs. 3 oz.   Length of pull on the trigger is 14”  Stock is sugar maple.

Metal parts were distressed thru a rusting process, cold blued to enhance contrast and buffed back.  Stock is stained with Laurel Mtn. Forge Nut Brown – several coats, filled with Waterlox and finished with Chamber’s Traditional Stock Oil.  A little rub down with 4F pumice knocked the sheen down at bit at the end.  The wire inlay accents about the carvings are fine silver sheet.

This rifle left the shop in the hands of a local hunter who mentioned that he had a 10 pointer that he had been watching all summer that needed to be introduced to this gun.  Haven’t seen any photos yet.

Anyone has any questions, I’ll be happy to answer.  Thanks for looking.

                        - J.R.











If you cannot see the irony in having a gun ban enforced by men with guns, then you fail to understand why the 2nd Amendment was written in the first place....

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2020, 04:14:54 AM »
Attractive gun, can you tell us a little more about that tang sight?

Offline helwood

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2020, 05:37:58 AM »
Most Excellent!  It looks like you've mastered the photo process.   I  think others will enjoys seeing your work.
            Later,Hank

Offline Daryl

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2020, 08:10:30 PM »
Nicely done, now about that tank sight. Any closeups from all angles, please?
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline TommyG

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2020, 09:15:31 PM »
That's a real nice looking gun.  Nice job with the carving and wire accents.  Really like the metal finish as well.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2020, 10:40:33 PM »
You did a very fine job on that rifle and it looks really nice.  I like the detail on that patchbox.
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Offline old george

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2020, 10:56:53 PM »
I love the iron furniture very nicely done.

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Offline sdilts

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2020, 03:00:46 AM »
The tang sight looks just like one I got from Randy Grunkenmeyer at the CLA show a couple years ago.

Offline Sidelock

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2020, 04:33:11 AM »
Thanks for the kind words on the rifle.

There are questions on that peep site, I’ll do my best to describe its construction and installation.

 That peep sight was a client requested add on after he saw another rifle in my shop with one installed.  I saw sites similar to this installed on some rifles at a CLA show a few years ago.  I was having trouble with seeing the back site on my own flinter and was looking for new options.  I made a copy of what I saw at the show, installed in on my gun and was impressed with the results.  I have since made several of these peeps sites and mounted them on a wide variety of muzzleloaders. I have had nothing but good reviews from the owners.  Many shooters report being able to double the distance that they feel confident in hitting a target over what they could do with traditional sights. 

This peep site is a simple contraption easily made with a mill and lathe, with a little more work, a hack saw, file and hand drill would produce the same product.  The peep site body is a 3/4” piece of cold rolled bar stock, 1/4” - 5/16” wide, mounted upon an 8X32 screw shank that is set into, in this case, a 1/4” hunk of cold rolled, that is about 3/4” long, that has been turned down on the lower end to 1/8”, drilled and tapped thru to accept the shank.  A collar of brass with friction ridges filed into the sides, acts as a “lock nut” when turned down on the shaft against the collar.  An oblong “peep tunnel” is milled in the center of the body of the peep, roughly the shape and size of a large cold capsule.  Upon the muzzle side of the peep body,  mill a slight channel 1/32” deep and work out with a dovetail file.  I use .040 brass for the flange that the peep is in, trim to size and work that like a dovetail on a sight to fit it into the dovetail on the peep site.  Leave a few 1/1000’s of the flange standing proud of the surface of the peep body.  This flange will slide laterally in that dovetail for your windage adjustments.

A set screw to secure the flange is necessary, A pan head machine screw does the trick.  Drill and tap a hole on the top side of the windage flange channel that is close enough that part of the head of the screw catches the upper side of the flange.  When tightened, this screw holds fast the windage flange that is slightly thicker than the channel in which it is mounted.  A peep hole +/- 1/16” is drilled thru the center of this flange.   

The “stalk” is a shank of #8-32 all thread.  Turning this shank in or out provides elevation adjustment albeit only in 1/32” increments if that is the pitch thread you use.  I have found 1/32” elevation increments for these muzzleloaders to me more than sufficient.  Drill and tap a blind 8-32 hole in the bottom of the peep body, screw in the shank, secure it in place with a quick shot of silver solder.  Leave the shank long, 1.5” or so, you can always cut it down later.

Installing the site is relatively simply, However, care must be taken to get the mounting base at exactly top dead center upon the wrist and perpendicular to the center of the bore else it will look crooked to the eye of the shooter.  The position of the site relative to the shooter is an individual measurement and should be worked out with the person whose rifle the site is being installed.   The collar is set into the wood in a hole bored to match the OD of the part a bit of epoxy will secure it in the hole.

On those rifles with a long tang, such as a Mountain Rifle, the mounting collar piece is eliminated and a boss is soldered onto the bottom of the tang at the proper position then the tang and boss are drilled and tapped perpendicular to the bore of the barrel.  A couple photos are attached of one of these sites mounted in this fashion.

To dress up the site some add incremental marks on the muzzle side of the windage flange and a center mark upon the body of the peep.  These are not MOA reference marks by any means but it gives the user points of reference when sighting the piece in.  On really fancy sights I have added a running leaf engraved boarder around the edge of the site body just for fun. 

Are these sights truly historically correct?  I’m not certain, but others on here will probably know.  They are primitive in design that much is certain so they don’t look out of character for the period of these rifles. 

The peep sight eliminates the problem many people have with clearly seeing that back sight 14” from their eye.   In addition to eliminating the problem of the fuzzy back sight, you increase your sight radius by as much as 15” - that alone makes a big difference.  One big problem however, especially for hunters, that peep situation really cuts down on available light.  Shots  20 minutes after sunset or in the woods on a cloudy day can be pretty difficult thru a peep site like this.   Like everything else in life, its always a compromise.   



If you cannot see the irony in having a gun ban enforced by men with guns, then you fail to understand why the 2nd Amendment was written in the first place....

Offline flehto

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2020, 04:15:06 PM »
A very beautiful Virginia LR. Always liked that style.....but have only built one which is an early Virginia LR. The Bplate is 2-1/8" wide. all steel fittings and it's just a plain hunting rifle.....Fred


Offline Daryl

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2020, 07:53:10 PM »
Thanks for the extra pictures and description on the tang sight, J.R. - very nice indeed, all of it.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2020, 09:11:56 PM »
Were Virginia rifles commonly done up with iron fittings? I don't know much about VA guns at all and every time a book on them comes up in the classifieds, someone beats me to it.  With my family history, both paternal and maternal, coming to Kentucky from Virginia on land grants following the Revolution, I should probably look into them some more.
Psalms 144

Offline Daryl

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2020, 09:56:22 PM »
That's a nice rifle, Fred.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Elnathan

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2020, 11:54:15 PM »
Were Virginia rifles commonly done up with iron fittings? I don't know much about VA guns at all and every time a book on them comes up in the classifieds, someone beats me to it.  With my family history, both paternal and maternal, coming to Kentucky from Virginia on land grants following the Revolution, I should probably look into them some more.

Iron mounts show up in Southwest Virginia by around 1775, when one is mentioned in an ad. After the Revolution iron mounted and brass mounted rifles were both made in that area. Further up the Shenandoah Valley brass ruled, I believe - there may have been some iron-mounted rifles made in the Appalachian regions in West Virginia post-War, but I'm not positive.

Most of the iron-mounted Virginia rifles, including both pictured here, are mostly a modern style popularized by the House brothers out in Kentucky, and you will often see them referred to as "Woodbury School" rifles, which is a more accurate description than the usual "Early Virginia." While there is some resemblance to the earliest surviving iron mounted rifles, they usually incorporate details drawn from several different areas and eras of the Southeast, so they are a continuation of the craft into modern times rather than a representation of past rifles.
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Offline varsity07840

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2020, 04:56:31 PM »
A very beautiful Virginia LR. Always liked that style.....but have only built one which is an early Virginia LR. The Bplate is 2-1/8" wide. all steel fittings and it's just a plain hunting rifle.....Fred


Did you make the patchbox?

Offline flehto

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2020, 04:38:29 PM »
Yes.......out of 1/16" thick sheet. The raised lid has its end formed .....not  w/ a piece soldered on. This is a hunting rifle so browned steel is what was wanted by the customer. It's .54 cal and the bbl is oct/rd and is fairly light.

Some early Virginia LRs have butt stock architecture similar to a Lancaster..... this LR  was modeled after an existing early Virginia  LR that has a different buttstock design.......Fred 

Offline rick/pa

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Re: Iron Mounted Virginia Rifle
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2020, 08:17:16 PM »
Very nice rifle. Thanks for the pictures and comments on the sight.  Before I retired I ran a CNC lathe and was doodling one day trying to design a similar sight during a job running on the lathe.   My idea was to make the support post with two different threads, a coarse thread for the bottom and a finer thread for the top. By using the two I believed that you could get a finer adjustment on the sight. I never made one to try my idea though. I found the old doodle in my toolbox and appended a picture. It's a little bit hard to read due to the dirt on it but I think you can get the idea. In the bottom left corner it looks like I was trying to figure out the amount of movement I could get by combining the two.  Since I retired in 2013 this has sat in the bottom of the toolbox forgotten.  Wish i had access to a lathe again. Do you think this might work?

« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 12:05:57 AM by rick/pa »