Copy a historic engraving or improvise?

[smart dog]

Hi,
Here is where I am at.  I stopped stippling after filling in spaces between the mirrored designs on the lid.  I think I like this look better than stippling the entire lid but I've not decided yet.  I'll look at it for a while.  I angled the box in the photo so the light shows up the engraving better.

dave
 

[Craig Wilcox]

Dave, it actually looks better than the original - less busy.  Commendations on your choice and execution.

[ToddCook]

I like that a lot.

[Dphariss]

Dan, you are most fortunate to have known Don & have some of his work.

He was a great ML gunsmith. One of the very best from the late 1950s into the 1980s.  And was multifaceted, truly a "gun guy". I could show him a rifle in progress and he could see minor mistakes in shaping that I had missed as I came in the door. In his younger days he had access to numerous originals. A man in Oklahoma City where he lived for a time had a large collection. Stacked deep around the walls of a room in a hotel he owned. Some on display in the lobby. He got to examine the Antes Swivel but they would not let him do any repair since someone before him had taken the gun and made it worse. His FS Hawken was based on an original he had access to.  Nor was he adverse to improving things from original guns. In 1964 at Friendship he was offered $1500 for his personal Bedford which he then named "King's Ransom" when friend told him he had been offered a Kings Ransom for the gun.  As reference for you younger folks. In 1964 my Dad bought a International truck, not a pickup, a truck, Cab and chassis for 3200 NEW from the dealer in Independence, Iowa. AND it was THE premier medium truck design of its day not a truck frame with a pickup cab bolted on. So $1500 was a serious chunk of money in 1964 for a FL rifle. Don declined the offer but made a number of Bedfords. In the 1970s he found out that people were ordering rifles then selling them for a profit. So he raised his prices.

[Dphariss]

 

 I like it.

[rich pierce]

Dave, it is great to see your range of work!

[Marcruger]

I am not a gun builder, but to my eye that is not the prettiest engraving pattern on that original.  I think you could come up with something that would look more artistic.  Just my 2 cents worth.  God Bless,   Marc

[Marcruger]

Oops.  Just saw your engraving pattern.  I like it a lot better than the original.  Nicely done. 

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thanks guys.  Here is a photo in better more neutral light.
 


The side panels are copies of the original with just parallel lines.



For those folks learning to engrave, there is no practice better than cutting long parallel lines.  A lot of sloppy tool control can be hidden in scrolls but not in parallel lines.

I still haven't decided.  Should I stipple the rest of the background on the lid or leave it as shown in my photo?

dave

dave 

[smallpatch]

Well, well done!
Engraving is one thing I truly wish I had pursued 25 years ago. Had several opportunities, but failed to launch.
You my friend have a beautiful style, AND talent!
I love it.
I say stipple the rest of the lid.  Seems like it would show up the vines better, and better match the finial.
Nice job Dave!

[Kingsburyarms]

I'd leave it - simply elegant and great texture. Well done Dave.

[ToddCook]

I'd leave it.

[WadePatton]

Stop stippling is my thought.  Well done (as we expected).

[Daryl]

Hi,
Here is where I am at.  I stopped stippling after filling in spaces between the mirrored designs on the lid.  I think I like this look better than stippling the entire lid but I've not decided yet.  I'll look at it for a while.  I angled the box in the photo so the light shows up the engraving better.

dave
 

Same here, looks good!

[Dennis Glazener]

Leave it as is.
Dennis

[Ed Wenger]

That looks good, Dave.  Like others have said, I like it better than the original.  Personally,  I don’t believe I would stipple the rest of the lid, but would draw some simple shading lines to accentuate the volutes, and see how that looks.  I think stippling the rest of the lid might be a little “busy”?...  Nice work!   Best,

        Ed

[Osprey]

I vote stipple the rest.  The original is so well known it looks incomplete to my eye with just the center.

[Robert Wolfe]

I like the way the stippling draws the eye to the centerline of the patchbox. Leave it.

[Joey R]

I like Ed's idea of some shading the volutes. As the post suggests, just a opinion.

[Daryl]

I thought the carving was very nicely accentuated by the stippling inside and plain surface outside.

[Acer Saccharum]

Dave, if you're unsure whether to stipple the rest of the lid or not, take a fine point sharpie and do a dot pattern. Then post pictures and we'll tell you how you should do it.

[davec2]

Acer......Great idea !

On a personal preference note.....the original does nothing for me at all, buy I really like Shane Emig's version.  I would more densely stipple the all the background (in between and outboard of the scrolls) and do some light shading on the scrolls themselves per Ed's suggestion....

[smart dog]

Hi,
You guys are great!  Thank you all.  Here is the box in the stock.  I think it looks very effective, is consistent with the folk art of the time (1770s), and the lack of sophistication common in the engraving on long rifles of the time.  My objective is a historically plausible rifle without imposed modern tastes and styles.


 I still have not decided about stippling the rest of the lid.  I think it looks very effective now but will use the sharpies to test that (great idea Tom!).  With respect to shading, no.  If it was a contemporary gun that I felt free to indulge my tastes, I would shade and refine the patch box design a great deal.  But that is not my objective and I am disciplined about historical context in design and decorative art, which I study a great deal.  A Schipper's style of shading and design, while very attractive and admirable, is not appropriate for this gun or even British guns from the same time period.  I admire Shane Emig's patch box engraving but it does not synchronize very well with the original and the volutes are too dramatic without historical precedent.  Again, thank you all for responding and please do not think I am not listening.  I am. Intensely.  I spend hours thinking about all of your comments and placing them in my decision tree.  If I fail to adopt your exact recommendations, it is not from lack of respect and appreciation.

dave