Nicholson Files

[frogwalking]

I finally caved in and ordered a set of Nicholson files from Midway.  I was picking out the ones I thought I needed, and found a set that included the ones I was looking for plus a few others for what  looked like a good price.  Will plain old blackboard chalk work to keep them from loading  up with steel?  They would only sell chalk by the box and the  price seemed high.  I already have a file card but guess now I have two as one was included with the files.

I have never used a good file, at least as far as I know.

I am not sure if my GM barrel needs to be draw filled or just slicked down with fine emery paper.  What do  you think?  People  were posting of how hard the GM steel is.  I didn't notice when I cut the barrel lug dovetails with hacksaw and files.  (Didn't have the right kind of chisel.)

[Joe Stein]

Regular blackboard chalk is fine for files, or go to the dollar store and buy a pack of "sidewalk chalk".  It comes in big. fat, easy to handle sticks about an inch in diameter.

-Joe   

[Blacksmoke]

frogwalking:  Here is another  tip for using a good brand of file and keeping it sharp for a longer period of time:  when cutting your work, only put downward pressure on the forward stroke and slightly lift the file when doing the returning stroke.  That way the teeth will only have contact with your work material in the cutting direction.  You can add a lot of extra life to you your files this way.      Hugh

[Darrin McDonal]

Here is another recommendation for extending the life by quite a bit. Don't use the standard commercial, hardened steel file cards except for the most stubborn little stickers. Use a brass wire brush as mush as possable. The standard wire ones will do quite a number on the for dulling them.
Darrin

[Bioprof]

Yes, you will need to drawfile the barrel.   It will be much easier and faster than sanding.   The mill marks on Green Mountain barrels are pretty deep.   It's really not that bad with a new file.

[Rich]

Another tip is to not use a card file but use an annealed piece of brass to clean bits out. The teeth will cut into the brass and make a custom shaped cleaner for that file.

[jwh1947]

For stock shaping, may I suggest both a Nicholson #49 rasp and a #50, which is a bit finer.   If cared for, they will last a very long time.  They are not inexpensive but after you get them in your hands, you'll reach for them instinctively and settle for no Home Depot/Lowes common grade rasps.  If a rasp says India or China on it, run, don't walk away form it.  If you are familiar with the Nicholsons, you know what I'm talking about.

Also, study your files...mill, bastard, warding, first cut, second cut, etc.  They were intended for specific jobs, and produce different results. Also, you can't expect to achieve good results carving gunstocks with common gouges that were intended for cutting tile.  Buy the right tools, then refer to the resource books on gunbuilding and study carefully how they show you to shape an edge and sharpen your woodcarving tools, and then keep them sharp.  Incidentally, my masters taught me that a dull tool is also more dangerous to use, as you will be pushing a lot harder and if you slip you may truly injure yourself.  You wouldn't be the first gunbuilder to poke yourself.  JWH

[frogwalking]

Thanks for the information.  I have been using whatever file my hands landed on for over 50 years.  I really do look forward to having some good ones.  I intend to drill holes in a block of wood for storage so the don't bump together.

[DutchGramps]

Another tip is to not use a card file but use an annealed piece of brass to clean bits out. The teeth will cut into the brass and make a custom shaped cleaner for that file.

[/i]
I use a discarded .50BMG case for that; squeeze the mouth, the case is a comfortable grip...

[rick landes]

I would not use chalk from a chalk board as it has wax in it to cut dust. Use a chalk intended for the job.

[caliber45]

Blacksmoke -- excellent advice on the pressure on the forward stroke only . . . but a pain in the wazoo. I start that way, with every good intention. Then I give in and do it the "natural" way. Guess that's why I have to buy so many new  files . . . paulallen, tucsonaz

[Acer Saccharum]

I try to do the forward stroke only on my good files on steel, but when it comes to delicate filing, I keep the file on the work so I don't lose my location. makes my files nice and glossy....oops, that's not good, is it?

[David Rase]

It is also easier to keep surfaces flat when you only file in one direction.  You will have a tendency to round the surface if you push and pull a file across a surface instead of pushing and lifting.
DMR

[ironwolf]

  No one mentioned this,  but when draw filling with a pull stroke,  hold the handle in your left hand.  Also don't store your files piled up together.

  KW

[joemike]

Years ago I was lucky enough to have a German trained master model maker working in our prototype shop. The engineers would sometimes go to the shop to use our "house" tools. If the tool was not doing the job they would ask if he had something they could use. The answer was always the same. In Germany a man buys or is given tools that he keeps for life. There is no reason to buy new tools if you take care of the ones you have. No one could use his personal  tools. Dragging a file was way up on top of his list. When he was an apprentice serious punishment was given out  for a man dragging a file! He would try to show them how it should be done or do it for them.   

[grizg]

Here is another recommendation for extending the life by quite a bit. Don't use the standard commercial, hardened steel file cards except for the most stubborn little stickers. Use a brass wire brush as mush as possable. The standard wire ones will do quite a number on the for dulling them.
Darrin

I know this is an old thread...

Gun Engraver Lynton McKenzie brought that tip to the CW shop during an informal presentation he did at Gary's house in 1987. Gary, Jon, George, Dave, Randy, a few other CW tradesmen, and I were there... Funny thing is that this is the second time today I thought of that presentation. The first time was while using my brass brush and piece of plate brass to clean aluminum from a bastard file. I had straightened the rolled edge out on an aluminum snow shovel and it was loaded up pretty badly...

Another file related thing from CW was that new files were used on materials in this order: wood, brass, iron/steel. Once a file wasn't cutting the brass well it was stamped with a center punch and reserved for use on iron/steel. 

I found the section on draw filing in Nicholson's "A Treatise on Files" to be invaluable. The quality of the finish I obtained went up once I applied that information.  If you cannot find a hard copy (or as reprinted in 1983 by Early American Industries Association) you can read it at
http://www.woodworkslibrary.com/repository/a_treatise_on_files_and_rasps_nicholson1878.pdf

Right after the draw filing section is one on first use of files...

[Stophel]

I have never used a good file, at least as far as I know.

Then you won't know the difference when you use the Nicholson files....


Unless they're new old stock (highly unlikely), modern Nicholson files are... well.... in the interests of maintaining a family friendly atmosphere, I won't say what I think of current production, made in mexico Nicholson files, and the company itself.

I have gotten some files from Bahco, made in Portugal, which get pretty good grades from folks who actually use them and know what they're doing, and so far, mine have done well with my limited use.  And they're not much more expensive (if any) than the crummy Nicholson files.

[Dennis Glazener]

I find some good deals on new files on Ebay. I have found several Gorbet files at good prices.
Dennis

[Bob Roller]

What Hugh says works for me. I have files that Bill Large gave me over 50 years ago and they
are still good.

Bob Roller

[Mike Brooks]

I go to a lot of farm auctions and yard sales. You can find brand new old files there for almost nothing. AND, they are great old American/German/swiss brands.
 In that big lot of tools I sold off here last summer I brought home two machinist chests full of goodies as well as a couple large boxes of files, all for $60....you guys didn't get any of the files....

[Jeff Durnell]

You know, when an old file is retired and a new one is put in its place, that used to be a real good day. Nothing like a new file or rasp. But when the old one was made in the USA and the new one is a foreign made replacement, it's depressing instead. I replaced two Nicholsons this weekend and they were made in Brazil. I could tell they were lesser quality at a glance.

[jerrywh]

 I never put chalk on my files. It just makes them cut like they are dull. If a file loads up bad you are not filing correctly.  When they load up lighten up on the pressure and give them a light pressure on the back stroke.  Files should be used with a slicing motion. The slicing motion tends to unload the file. When draw filing the file should be used at about a 30° angle to the work. This also creates a slicing motion. The material comes off almost like steel wool when draw filing properly. I pick the teeth with a piece of copper and a ice pick. 
Dave Race has been referred to as a wizard with a file by some. He's good.

[Stophel]

I gotta say I don't put chalk on my files either.  I have found it makes no difference at all, at least for me.  Sure, I get a pin every now and then, but I got them with chalk too.  If I didn't get in a hurry like I do, and stopped and checked my file more often, I could probably avoid most of those pins too.

[Jeff Durnell]

Same here. Quit chalking files and rasps 20 years ago. I keep their teeth clean, dry, in a controlled environment, never let them touch anything harder than themselves, and they stay effective a long time.

[sdilts]

Those bronze? brass? or whatever they are grill cleaning brushes work real well for cleaning your file. Plus they are cheap and easy to find.