Author Topic: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken  (Read 4328 times)

Offline Yazel.xring

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Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« on: December 01, 2020, 02:52:41 AM »
I hate to say it, but after spending a week with Mike Brooks and Wayne Estes in August I was bitten by the building bug. I built an old CVA Derringer kit as a teenager, so I'm starting on gun two by building a Traditions St. Louis Hawken Kit. I know it's not a pretty kit, but it's somthing I'm not too nervous to mess up and learn from.

I'll be documenting the process in a series of videos for the NMLRA, as we work to reach muzzleloading enthusiasts who might be looking to learn about an affordable kit and what it takes to get it shooting.



In the first video I unbox the kit and show each piece of the kit. The second video, just out today, is a short one where I explain the tools I'm using for the build.



I'd love to hear any comments of critiques of the videos and my building in them.
Hi, I’m Ethan and I Love Muzzleloading

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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2020, 04:19:49 AM »
Since you asked, my first observation is to say the following:  in one of your first videos, make sure you explain that what you are building is no more a Hawken than a Lada is a Lincoln.  It is at best, a generic half stocked percussion muzzle loading rifle.  I wish you luck on this "build".
D. Taylor Sapergia
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cjrown_2000

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2020, 04:20:28 AM »
Good luck.  Have fun!

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2020, 05:11:14 PM »
Since you asked, my first observation is to say the following:  in one of your first videos, make sure you explain that what you are building is no more a Hawken than a Lada is a Lincoln.  It is at best, a generic half stocked percussion muzzle loading rifle.  I wish you luck on this "build".


I wasn't going to get into this thread, but after seeing Taylor's comment I decided to add a comment of my own. 

First, I heartily agree with all Taylor said.  In addition to what he said, my personal feeling is the names Hawken, Kentucky rifle, Pennsylvania rifle, etc. have been incredibly prostituted for decades by CVA, Traditions, TC, Pedersoli, and several others (many of whom have gone out of business).  Many people just starting out in muzzleloading that bought one of these kits, or finished guns, were duped by the manufacturer's hype into thinking that what they bought is an authentic representation of what the name implies.  Not to say that these guns aren't any good, that is not my intention.  They are for the most part fully functional guns.  It just rubs my fur the wrong way to see the manufacturers blowing smoke to folks that don't know the difference.

I think this series of videos is good in getting people started out in muzzleloading with an inexpensive kit that is easy to build and teaches them some basic gun making techniques.  If built correctly and with care taken in the process, a functional, perfectly shootable, entry level gun can be obtained.  Let's be honest, most of us started out with one of these entry level guns, as I did well over 40 years ago.  Just my tuppence worth.


Don Richards
Don Richards
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NRA Chief Range Safety Officer

Offline redheart

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2020, 08:30:53 PM »
Since you asked, my first observation is to say the following:  in one of your first videos, make sure you explain that what you are building is no more a Hawken than a Lada is a Lincoln.  It is at best, a generic half stocked percussion muzzle loading rifle.  I wish you luck on this "build".
I'm with Taylor on this one.
It's blasphemy to call this thing a Hawken! >:( ::)

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2020, 09:28:12 PM »
Put her together Ethan! That’s another step in your progress. Make your next project a little tougher and then a little tougher after that!!
Stop Marxism in America

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2020, 09:33:28 PM »
Put her together Ethan! That’s another step in your progress. Make your next project a little tougher and then a little tougher after that!!
This is how the majority of us got started,although some may not admit it. :)

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2020, 09:53:02 PM »
He got off to a good start when he snapped the lock off the gun.
That is a good way to bend or break the bridle screws in any lock.
Bob Roller

Offline redheart

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2020, 01:49:45 AM »
Put her together Ethan! That’s another step in your progress. Make your next project a little tougher and then a little tougher after that!!
This is how the majority of us got started,although some may not admit it. :)
I admit it. I'm just not proud of it! :o

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2020, 02:08:17 AM »
Put her together Ethan! That’s another step in your progress. Make your next project a little tougher and then a little tougher after that!!
This is how the majority of us got started,although some may not admit it. :)
I admit it. I'm just not proud of it! :o
I drove a pedal truck several years before I bought my first F-150!
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2020, 02:45:22 AM »
HAHAHAHAHA Stoner! ;D ;D ;D Good one. I mean, really - who would buy a 150??? When the same outfit sells 350's?
Yeah - please don't snap the lock off a gun.
Was surprised at the drum and nipple.
Best wishes, but, it ain't a Hawken.
Yeah, I know, it says it is. Oh well.
YIKES - GET STEEL SIGHTS - www.trackofthewolf.com
The muzzle does need smoothing - it is not coned, it has a machine cut crown.
You need to smooth that up with emery or wet/dry paper. The end of your thumb
is all that is needed.
Put it together and enjoy it.




Here is Rich's muzzle crown after the thumb treatment. Beautifully smoothed crown. I like a little more angle, but this one will work fine.
It might even be more accurate.


« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 03:02:37 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline Bob McBride

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2020, 02:47:04 AM »
Put her together Ethan! That’s another step in your progress. Make your next project a little tougher and then a little tougher after that!!
This is how the majority of us got started,although some may not admit it. :)
I admit it. I'm just not proud of it! :o
I drove a pedal truck several years before I bought my first F-150!

Yea, baby!  ;D

Offline jm190

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2020, 05:37:26 PM »
Hi All,
   One of my other hobbies is building plastic scale models. It comes as no surprise to see the similarity between this discussion and those on modeling boards concerning the accuracy, skill required and time involved in building different quality model kits. Some modelers are just as concerned about period correctness and historical correctness as members of this forum. Just like we have Traditions kits, TOTW kits, Jim Chambers' kits and those who build their muzzle loaders from scratch the modeling community has the same diversity in products available.

   Like some people have posted "Everyone has to start somewhere". It makes me happy to see members of this forum supporting the OP and his building of a Traditions kit. It seems to me I see a lot of comments of how old members are so remember it's those people who are "starting somewhere" that could be the future of this American art form.

John

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2020, 06:12:15 PM »
  Well I still got my T.C. Hawkings... Still puts balls down range.
 Shot several deer with it....an ya know like other's have said..
  Most of us started this after watching Robert Redford in Jeremiah Johnson.   My how times has changed...Oldtravler

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2020, 07:33:34 PM »
Ethan, most of us are avidly waiting for #3 of your video series.

Yeah, not a real Hawken rifle, but you can still make it and enjoy it.  Do get some decent sights from TOW or MLBS.  Not expensive, and they will last several lifetimes.  They also look nicer.

I am glad that you are joining those of us who really enjoy building and shooting or ML's.  I anticipate that your next - are there is ALWAYS a "next" - build.  Go fer it!!
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Yazel.xring

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2020, 03:37:48 PM »
Thank you all for the comments and feedback. I'm taking them, and other forum posts into account for the next one. I really appriciate your photos Daryl, thank you!

In part 3 I go through dryfitting the parts


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Offline Kary

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2020, 05:43:31 PM »
Ethan,
When I first started my Muzzeloading journey I started with the CVA Hawken, which is very much like your Traditions, these are fine shooting rifles and are fun to build. Although they’re not in any way the “ Traditional Hawken”, they for sure have been the first rifles for
many people  in this hobby. I beleive that has earned them a place in history....With that wing said,
As a kit, you can do quite a bit with that rifle to make it really neat. If it were mine, I’d defarb the barrel.. then maybe french grey or brown it, take a little wood off from the lock panels, And ensure the wood to metal fit is good. Those rifles are notorious for extra wood here and there. I’d also get a nice buckhorn traditional rear sight, then go with a brass blade front sight. Just make sure it gives a good sight picture when your done. I’m partial to a really dark stain on that brand of rifle, as the wood normally doesn’t have a lot of character anyways. Have fun with it!

Offline mikeyfirelock

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2020, 06:00:08 PM »
Gentlemen......I think Ethan is the marketing director for the NMLRA......this video might be a good tool for introducing the great unwashed masses to the joy and satisfaction of our hobby.    Go for it Ethan !
Mike Mullins

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2020, 06:51:15 PM »
You can always use faux stripping.

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2020, 11:22:29 PM »
I see nothing wrong with these kits. I got my start in this fascinating hobby with the cva hawken rifle. I built several of them for myself and selling them I got the urge to build more traditional rifles. Christmas was always good. Guys would get these as gifts and I would assemble them. So all in all for some people these are a good way to start

Offline snapper

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2020, 11:33:47 PM »
Ethan

Excellent videos showing the younger crowd what can be done. 

Nice cameo appearance by that old guy.  Hope you did not have to wake him from his nap.

Fleener
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Offline mikeyfirelock

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2020, 07:00:10 AM »
Just finished watching these videos.  I’m going to recommend the members of our club watch them and recommend them to anyone they encounter who has purchased a kit (of any sort.)
There’s a lot of potential here for getting starting BP shooters interested in our segment of the sport.
Mike Mullins

Offline Johnny Dollar

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2020, 09:57:12 AM »
Ethan,
Very nicely done.  A young friend of mine has just gotten into muzzleloading and his gateway build is the same as yours.  He has been shooting it at local matches and does really well.  He shoots competitively with cartridge guns just about every week and is nationally ranked in several disciplines.  He just got a Pedersoli musket kit finished and is having a great time shooting that in flintlock matches.  What’s interesting is that his younger brother and his dad have gotten interested and are building and shooting mz’s too!  The more folks that get involved in the sport, the better for everyone.

Offline Joey R

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2020, 07:31:25 PM »
Yes! The more the better.
Joey.....Don’t ever ever ever give up! Winston Churchill

Offline Yazel.xring

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Re: Building my 2nd Kit- Traditions St. Louis Hawken
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2020, 03:35:47 PM »
Ethan

Excellent videos showing the younger crowd what can be done. 

Nice cameo appearance by that old guy.  Hope you did not have to wake him from his nap.

Fleener

Haha! I wish he could nap, we haven’t slept much with the bustle of the fall. Hoping things slow down after Christmas.
Hi, I’m Ethan and I Love Muzzleloading

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