Soddy-First Scratch Build Plan-Comments Needed

[canadianml1]

I am planning a scratch build of a Soddy Daisy in 36 cal. I think I would like to build it around the following parts but not set in stone:

1. 3/4 x 40 inch octagonal Rice barrel

2. Lollypop breech plug

3. Kibler late Ketland lock

4. TOW Soddy Daisy butt plate

5. TOW southern style trigger guard

6. Kibler smr double set trigger

7. Hard maple (plain) stock blank purchased locally. **


** what are the things to watch out for in purchasing a stock blank? Percent moisture  etc? What razor rasp do I need?

Comments appreciated. Thanks

[Ats5331]

Allen Martin has a straight stock for sale in his Longrifle Stock blank ad

[P.Bigham]

I’ve only built one Soddy. I’ve got a  pattern from Jack Dupree his original.  I don’t remember them having a lollipop tang. They have many different characteristics. I would try to contact Jack or find some originals to study. Depending on how accurate you want. 

[RMann]

I'm a rookie here, but a 3/4" barrel coupled with the late Ketland lock would add up to only 1-1/8" between the lock panels, if I'm figuring right.  I know the lighter weight is attractive, but that slimness would make me nervous.  I suggest drawing out your plans, with those components, and see if you are comfortable with the resulting dimensions.  Your trigger choice fits the slim geometry height wise, but width wise,  a swamped or tapered barrel will give you some needed beef in the breech.  It sure is a fun process, isn't it - all the thinking and figuring.  Even the "mistakes" are worth the engagement.  R Mann

[JTR]

Here's a couple Soddy Daisy guns from the Library here;

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2302.0
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6000.0

[rich pierce]

Here's a couple Soddy Daisy guns from the Library here;

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2302.0
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6000.0

Amen! Use the library! It’s my first go-to.

[oldtravler61]

  Here's a picture of Jack Duprey holding one of his Soddies.
As you can see. They are VERY slim indeed..! He has an original flint Soddy that the measurement of that rifle are in Randall Pierce book on southern Tennessee rifles...If ya want more info p.m. me...   Oldtravler

[canadianml1]

Thanks to all for their comments!!!!!

By my calculation the distance between lock  panels is 1-1/4 inches..........still pretty skinny but that is about what they were I think. I'll try and obtain a copy of Randal's book that provides dimensions. I am not set on a plain octagonal barrel but that is what Bob McBride's Soddy is.....I think. Bob has offered his help with dims and details so I am well on my way. So thanks again all. 

[duca]

Awesome pictures Guys, keep'em coming.

Duca

[alacran]

Ok all Soddys I've seen, granted all in photos or videos(Ray McKnight), Have big Honking barrels. Also small bores. These guns are heavy. Typically 1 inch across the flats at breach. Long barrels. I have all the parts except the barrel to build one. And if I do and call it a Soddie, it will not have a skinny barrel.

[Bob McBride]

They’re pretty tough to build with a 3/4” barrel and a Chambers LK as said above. A smidge bigger might be better but if you’re going to actually use the gun and/or eventually sell it don’t punish yourself because your ancestors were rubbish at making good barrels. And if you aren’t 5’1” with stubby little vitamin deficient arms, go ahead and add a bit to that original 12” LOP as well.

[GANGGREEN]

I've loved the Soddy's since the first time I saw one, but I don't like heavy, straight barrels, nor do I need a 12" LOP.     Just not sure that it's right to copy a specific school of gun and then to bastardize it too badly.   I'm not completely in the PC/HC crowd, but I struggle with these questions at times.   

They’re pretty tough to build with a 3/4” barrel and a Chambers LK as said above. A smidge bigger might be better but if you’re going to actually use the gun and/or eventually sell it don’t punish yourself because your ancestors were rubbish at making good barrels. And if you aren’t 5’1” with stubby little vitamin deficient arms, go ahead and add a bit to that original 12” LOP as well.

[Bob McBride]

I've loved the Soddy's since the first time I saw one, but I don't like heavy, straight barrels, nor do I need a 12" LOP.     Just not sure that it's right to copy a specific school of gun and then to bastardize it too badly.   I'm not completely in the PC/HC crowd, but I struggle with these questions at times.   

They’re pretty tough to build with a 3/4” barrel and a Chambers LK as said above. A smidge bigger might be better but if you’re going to actually use the gun and/or eventually sell it don’t punish yourself because your ancestors were rubbish at making good barrels. And if you aren’t 5’1” with stubby little vitamin deficient arms, go ahead and add a bit to that original 12” LOP as well.

My comment above was almost wholly tongue in cheek but yea, for sure. I’ve seen originals with tapered and flared barrels at 1” at the breech and as skinny as about 7/8” at the narrowest point and with straights about 15/16” and yes, the overall feel is different with a skinny barrel. Most of these Southern ‘Outback’ guns are mostly considered over the log guns today and a bit tough on our modern bodies. There’s a spot in the middle that makes it the squirrel gun it was meant to be, if one plans on using it that way. I have the parts for a heavy barreled Soddy and the parts for a jr. sized .29 cal with a 5/8” straight barrel that will need a very small lock. As Ian Pratt argues, longrifles are still evolving....

[WadePatton]

Maybe call it a "Tennessee" and you'll have less arguments from the Soddy fans. There are as many exceptions as rules when you broaden the scope of the style you wish to replicate/resemble.

I'm no fan of a straight barrel, of any size (they all feel muzzle chunky and slow to me). I don't see them on originals, so they don't seem historic to me nor do they offer the advantages of swamped. Getting them into place is a good bit different that parallel sided tubes, but folks will do that for you for a few dollars if you don't care to do it yourself.

Plain wood is boring, a little figure isn't expensive in maple, or terribly complicating for an uncarved gun build.

Good luck with it. 

[oldtravler61]

  Not to bust anyone's bubble. But the original that Jack Duprey has. Is a very slim rifle. Of all the originals I have seen an handled. I have seen Soddy over the log guns. Plus the slimmer squirrel guns. Mostly all percussion. Some with  tapered barrels. Only way you could really tell is putting a measurement to them.
 Jack's original at the wrist area measures about 1 5/8 across.
 We all have to realize. That back then most folks were a whole lot stronger than we are today. So a 9 or 10 pound rifle was no big deal... JMHO ... Oldtravler

[RMann]

Canadian, you could think about Rice's "Reading", in an appropriate wt, if you are comfortable with that latitude.  But the order time would be quite long I would guess...  RM

[canadianml1]

Thanks for additional comments, very much appreciated. I really don't want another 9 lb gun so that is why I am thinking skinny. And it would be a squirrel rifle. The Rice Reading A weight barrel looks interesting to me. May require soldering of lugs it is so small??

What do you think of my lock selection? Since the late Ketland is historically an imported lock would they have been used in Tennessee in 1820? Maybe I should use a "made in America" replica of some description?? I have spent a good bit of time in the library and have not seen a LK on any Soddy or Tennessee gun but I like JK's lock. Period correct but maybe not "geography correct"??

Also stock carving will be all new to me and my experience with cheap rasps is not good so I have an interest in a 'razor' file or some thing that would work better/easier without bruising the wood.

I plan to inlet and drill the stock blank myself..................scary but if I do a good job it will be satisfying. I really want to learn all I can.

Maybe I should use a long tang not a lollipop??**

More questions....................more questions?!?!

**P.S. I plan to purchase Randal Pierce's book before I set in stone my plan's details. Can someone tell me the title of his book please.

Thanks again to all.

[alacran]

  Not to bust anyone's bubble. But the original that Jack Duprey has. Is a very slim rifle. Of all the originals I have seen an handled. I have seen Soddy over the log guns. Plus the slimmer squirrel guns. Mostly all percussion. Some with  tapered barrels. Only way you could really tell is putting a measurement to them.
 Jack's original at the wrist area measures about 1 5/8 across.
 We all have to realize. That back then most folks were a whole lot stronger than we are today. So a 9 or 10 pound rifle was no big deal... JMHO ... Oldtravler

Most folks back then rode horses or mules. They didn't tote rifles as far as we do today on foot. The dogs went ahead of them. When something was treed, they would dismount, and dispatch whatever was up the tree.

[Bob McBride]

Thanks for additional comments, very much appreciated. I really don't want another 9 lb gun so that is why I am thinking skinny. And it would be a squirrel rifle. The Rice Reading A weight barrel looks interesting to me. May require soldering of lugs it is so small??

What do you think of my lock selection? Since the late Ketland is historically an imported lock would they have been used in Tennessee in 1820? Maybe I should use a "made in America" replica of some description?? I have spent a good bit of time in the library and have not seen a LK on any Soddy or Tennessee gun but I like JK's lock. Period correct but maybe not "geography correct"??

Also stock carving will be all new to me and my experience with cheap rasps is not good so I have an interest in a 'razor' file or some thing that would work better/easier without bruising the wood.

I plan to inlet and drill the stock blank myself..................scary but if I do a good job it will be satisfying. I really want to learn all I can.

Maybe I should use a long tang not a lollipop??**

More questions....................more questions?!?!

**P.S. I plan to purchase Randal Pierce's book before I set in stone my plan's details. Can someone tell me the title of his book please.

Thanks again to all.

The Late Ketland is a great choice. He’s a pic of JD’s original Soddy’s tang. It’s the only pic Jack sent me of that area and it’s not a great pic of the tang so I will include the tang on my copy. It’s virtually identical.

[AsMs]

Last time I was at Dixon’s near the end of Summer they had a Reading A weight Rice barrel in .40 cal in stock.  So you would have no wait time.

AsMs

[Tim Crosby]

**P.S. I plan to purchase Randal Pierce's book before I set in stone my plan's details. Can someone tell me the title of his book please.

Thanks again to all.

 https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=50941.0

[okawbow]

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37199.msg357278#msg357278
Scroll down for pictures of a Soddy Daisey I built a few years ago. I used a very slightly swamped 3/4” barrel and an L&R Manton lock. Great shooting rifle. Very light and slim.

[canadianml1]

okawbow:

Thanks for your response!!! Love those southern guns. Beautiful rifle! 

[canadianml1]

Thanks to all for responding!!!

[WadePatton]

I don't think this was plainly stated but, yes, Bob was correct but I'll add that imported English locks were the norm on TN rifles.  Just pick one that fits, yes a late one.  HTH.