No more priming with 4f

[WaterFowl]

Enjoy the speed of Null-B and 4f plinking .......but hunt with 2 f......deer don't like it.
my lock throws so much spark i think i could light a charcoal briquet....no joke.
I have to use a hammer stall because it takes 1-3 hammer falls to ignite a dry pan.....safety first.
Couple years ago I hammer stalled on two gimme shots...Oh Joy!

[Not English]

Smylee Grouch has it right! I always hunt with FFFFg for priming in the pan. The trick as Smylee says is to seal the pan. Bear grease, tallow, bees wax or any combination of similar stuff works well. You need to seal around the pan as well as the pan/barrel interface. A cow's  knee goes a long ways as well if hunting in slop.

[acorn20]

I've never hunted in a downpour with my flintlocks but I've hunted in blizzards with nothing more than a leather, waterproof cow's knee protecting my flintlock.  I can remember standing on watch with my rifle lying horizontal on two limbs of a fir tree with 6 inches of snow from muzzle to butt.  After hunting, it went off without a hitch.

Back in the late seventies, I bought a little bottle of a Teflon material called "Fuzz's Dry Pan."  I still have and use the small bottle of fine, flaky material.  Directions said you were to mix 1 part dry pan to 6 parts powder.  I never mixed it that strong.  I'd measure out some 4ffff powder in a baby food jar and mix in some Fuzz's Dry Pan.    Shake vigorously and you'd have enough priming powder for several years.  I'm still using the same mixing jar as well.   

That material was manufactured by Fetterman & Sons, RD4 Box 381, Newville, PA.  I doubt you can find it today.  However, another product that I think might be the same thing...possible the same formula, showed up on the market several years ago.  It's called "Fletch Dry" by RMC...Rightnour MFG Company.  Their address is Main Street, Mingoville, PA 16856. 

Last year while up at the Sportsmen's Show in Harrisburg, I stopped at the RMC booth and talked to them.  They have a new product called "Dry Pan" that they assured was the same formula as their Fletch Dry.  I forget how much it was a bottle but a little bit of this mixed with your priming powder will surely extend your days afield in inclimate weather.   

[oldtravler61]

  For a long time have always used 2 f or 3 f powder to prime.
 Just don't like carring extra anything.  Plus I really believe back in the day. The long hunters an mountain Men didn't either..
  Oldtravler

[Phil Neal]

I do like 4f but will use 3f at times, at single digit humidity here in the great state of Nevada, moisture is usually not a concern.

[Dphariss]

Larry.  My sincere thanks for your super well thought out and executed tests.  The priming powder one was especially helpful.  As I noted, I only recently shifted to 4f in the pan from Null B, as the Null B leaves a hard coating of graphite on my pan.  Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

Swiss powder does not have a graphite coating it does not need it to be shiny. The polish is from the powder being properly made.
Graphite is and was, used to make a low grade powder look better though it does stop the thin layer of saltpeter on the grains from lightly bonding to other grains.
Graphite has no downside for today's military uses and it will stop the powder for clumping and fouling up the machinery used to make fuses and boosters in military applications where fouling (graphite, while carbon, will not combust at the temperatures generated in BP firearms) and ballistic uniformity are irrelevant. This where a great deal of domestic production goes and where the real money is I am told.
The test for graphite. Take pinch or so of powder a rub it lightly against your palm with a finger, just hard enough to apply some graphite to you palm. Not enough to damage the granules. Try some Goex then try some Swiss.
In the days of BP as the only propellant the British military, for example, would reject any powder coated with "black lead".

Dan

[Dphariss]

  For a long time have always used 2 f or 3 f powder to prime.
 Just don't like carring extra anything.  Plus I really believe back in the day. The long hunters an mountain Men didn't either..
  Oldtravler

I think priming from my main horn is a  huge PITA.
And priming horns were known and used. But like many things carried, few survive today.
Check pg 257 of "Kentucky Rifles and Pistols 1750-1850"
Or here.

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2013/09/rifle-and-hunting-pouch-carried-by.html

Dan

[Dphariss]

I always use a full length cover, usually leather with some water proofing like Snow Seal.
I don't always have a tree to lean a rifle against when field dressing.
I suppose a cows knee is OK. But I can't see it being any less trouble to get off the rifle than a Snow-Sealed cover, which slides off pretty slick and there is not ice frozen to the sights.
Dan

[Daryl]

Not a difficult trail to follow. They should all be that easy.

[Dphariss]

One ounce ball just to the left of the windpipe. Took out top 2/3 of the heart. Mule deer are tough and she had seen me sitting the grass. 40 yard shot. Deer ran 55 long steps before piling. I think an elk might have gone down. Sir William Drummond Stewart wrote than Elk were easier to stop with his 20 bore Manton than the deer. I have had some White Tails run off after some really heavy hits. Seen it with some pretty "effective" modern stuff back when I was a guide/horse packer.

That trail came out of one hole.

Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The last moose I shot with my .62 cal; Hawken rifle left a splash like that behind him where the ball exited his lungs.  Even so, he staggered another hundred yards into a dry swamp and some nice clean dry grass for field dressing.  The hard part was the shin-tangle he crossed to get to the field.

[Dphariss]

The last moose I shot with my .62 cal; Hawken rifle left a splash like that behind him where the ball exited his lungs.  Even so, he staggered another hundred yards into a dry swamp and some nice clean dry grass for field dressing.  The hard part was the shin-tangle he crossed to get to the field.

Where I live a moose is a drawing and people often try for years and never get a tag. They are smaller than the ones you have. I do have a Moose story. I was riding out of the back country back in my younger days. Riding my Appaloosa and leading my Mom's  Arab gelding as pack horse. I am riding along and this cow moose stands up out of the grass and scrub brush on my left and I go @#$%# to myself cause she is too close. THEN the calf stands up on the RIGHT side of the trail, great. Too late to do anything so I just let the horses walk and pass between mom and calf without any excitement. I really figured i was a cooked goose, horse wreck, stomped by moose etc.. But apparently the horses and moose did not care.  Had I done anything different, horse got excited, I might have been. I don't recall even looking back.

Dan

[Rifleman1776]

I know priming granulation is a debatable issue. I'll just say I use 4Fg all the time because I prefer it. Having hunted in all kinds of weather conditions I've never had the  clumping problem described. A clean pan is the key. BP residue after shooting is what collects moisture. But, whatever works for you is what you should go with. Do yer own thang.

[Darkhorse]

I've been shooting solely flintlocks for well over 20 years and all I'll use for prime is 4fg. I mostly hunt Georgia and if anyone thinks it's humid in the midwest they should spend some time down in the deep south.
I do monitor my prime regularly and dump and replace often when hunting. I keep my pan and the bottom of the frizzen wiped clean, often with alcohol. And I too have never experienced the problems others are having.

[MuskratMike]

Seems like this topic gets beat to death every couple of months or so. How about we all agree to use what we each like and quit worrying what others use or trying to convince others our way is best.

[smylee grouch]

Open debate and different opinions are good. New shooters ANF old can learn this way. If a person doesn't want to participate just don't read the posts. 

[heinz]

I have been shooting flintlocks for over 50 years.  I remember really sketchy locks and having to use Curtis and Harvey powder when DuPont was gone.  Heartless and Scurvy was what we called C&H.  I prefer priming with 4f.  The data shows why.  If you cannot tell the difference in ignition time between 4f and 2f you are probably not much of a shot anyhow.  I will use 3f and I always carry a priming horn.  It makes it easy to check the prime and fresh it from time to time.  "I won't use 4f" because it blows out of my pan?? Get a better fitting pan, there is not supposed to be a gap between the lock and the barrel. 
I agree with Mr. Phariss and the Sapergia brothers.

[Daryl]

Heartless and Scurvy was what we called C&H. 

We have always spoken of and called C&H the same way you do. Small world.

[utseabee]

   I carry a priming horn with 4F when hunting. I will say that I have had much better luck with Swiss 4F than Goex 4F in northern PA. I never had a problem with the Swiss caking up. To be fair, my Goex is probably 20 years old. I still use Goex for a main charge in the smoothbores and Swiss in the rifles. All of my priming powder is Swiss now.