L&R vs Siler

[Ats5331]

L&R v Siler..

I have always used Siler in the past, but read reviews that say L&R are just as good.

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

[oldtravler61]

  Their both good locks. Both back their product...But I still prefer the Silers by Jim Chamber's. Especially his Late Ketland.
  But that's my opinion. Other's may very... Oldtravler

[Daryl]

I would say the Chamber's locks are definitely "tuned" better than the L&R locks.
The do have longer "throws", but also spark better.  The L&R Dickert lock, however
was excellent for me. Taylor thought is just as fast as his Chamber's locks.

[smart dog]

Hi,
All L&R locks require far more work to bring up to a decent standard compared with Chambers.  There is really no comparison, Chambers are much better.  Here is a link to a thread where I describe how to make one L&R product an acceptable lock.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=60628.msg610320#msg610320

dave

[wattlebuster]

If you have to work on a new lock just to get it to work correctly then WHY buy it?  That tells me all I need to know. Its some thing that should have been done Before it left the maker from the git go

[Lucky R A]

        Overall Chambers locks are of better quality and much they have better quality control.  L & R offers styles and that Chambers doesn't and certainly more left hand offerings.  I pretty well know that with a lock from Jim Chambers I can install it usually with out any tuning.  L & R often take several hours of tuning to get the function that I want.  I am a full time builder and sending out a gun with a ill tuned lock can kill a reputation...
Ron

[Dale Halterman]

The tolerances of Siler locks are better than L&R if you buy direct from Jim. However, Jim sells a lot of kits to that are assembled by others and then resold. Quality varies all over the map. After having been burned a few times, I buy only from Jim now.

Dale H

[Dphariss]

L&R v Siler..

I have always used Siler in the past, but read reviews that say L&R are just as good.

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

Germanic lock? Siler. Especially the large Siler/Dale Johnson.


Dan

[bob in the woods]

It's nice to have the option of different styles of locks, which is not really easily accomplished back in the 70's   I really appreciate having so many historically appropriate locks available today. L&R offers some which are not really available from anyone else.   I prefer Chambers locks myself, but don't forget R.E. Davis locks.  The ones I've used needed a bit more finishing work but they performed extremely well.

[Ross Dillion]

The last two Chambers flintlocks I’ve used required a lot of tweaking and tuning. I honestly should send my Late Ketland lock back because of the abysmal fit of the lop jaw on the hammer. I’m using a L&R late English flintlock on my current squirrel rifle build. So far I’ve been impressed by it but have yet to fire it.

[rich pierce]

It's nice to have the option of different styles of locks, which is not really easily accomplished back in the 70's   I really appreciate having so many historically appropriate locks available today. L&R offers some which are not really available from anyone else.   I prefer Chambers locks myself, but don't forget R.E. Davis locks.  The ones I've used needed a bit more finishing work but they performed extremely well.

I’m a contrarian by nature so never bought a Beatles album. Same is true for gun locks. So many guns have been built with Siler locks that I’ve avoided them. Germanic locks of the period generally had internal frizzen screws. Those little details derail me sometimes. Thankfully as said we have many choices.

[smallpatch]

I don’t use L&R locks unless I have no other choice.  The biggest problems are usually the springs.  Had to replace the mainspring 3 times to get one to pop a cap. Yes, they replaced each one free of charge, but very difficult to explain to a client.
Chambers or Kibler..... never had a problem.

[flintlock hunter]

I for one think a Siler is a better lock. That being said I have a l&R Dickert that after about 15,000 shots I had to reface the frizzen and make a new frizzen spring. It is the most forgiving lock on flints I ever owned and its still going strong. I also don't like the way there fly's are set up. I know I'll get a lot of disagreement but I like the older Silers better than the Chambers ones. I prefer my flint to almost touch the frizzen on half cock. I have a few L&S (locks and stuff) and a couple made by Walter Cain on the shelf ready for deferent projects. The Walter Cain Silers were the best put together ones in my opinion . A friend that I built a rifle for said his rifle was so fast he didn't have time to flinch with that Cain lock.

[mountainman70]

Well, I am a fan of both. I do prefer L&R for the variety,and have used a bunch of em since returning to the hobby in 2008. In fact most all my builds have used either L&R or Davis.
A couple Silers where stylisticall appropriate,but mostly late flint, and Hawken style caplocks.
The only problem iI have is the occasional wayward FLY taking off to never Find Me Land, but thats why I keep a supply of the critturs on hand,along with the stirrup links.lol
I have a large siler on my 1st rifle from 1979,left hander flint, many shots over the years, and it still works like it did new.
Good discussion fellers. have a goodun. Dave F

[scottmc]

I'm a lefty so have used mostly L&R over the years.  My first rifle was a full stock hawker and I used the late English lock.  I broke two frozen screws on that gun for some reason but I sold it a couple years after I built it.  That was in 1986.  Since then, I've used either Cochran's or the l&r manton which has performed flawlessly for me and I shoot a good bit.  I just obtained another late English lock from Bama and it is very smooth and appears to be very good.  I bought one left hand Chambers lock and nothing was hardened but I didnt discover it until the gun was built and ready to shoot.  Another $200 to Brad Emig and it works like a fine tuned clock.  Just my experiences.

[varsity07840]

It's nice to have the option of different styles of locks, which is not really easily accomplished back in the 70's   I really appreciate having so many historically appropriate locks available today. L&R offers some which are not really available from anyone else.   I prefer Chambers locks myself, but don't forget R.E. Davis locks.  The ones I've used needed a bit more finishing work but they performed extremely well.

I’m a contrarian by nature so never bought a Beatles album. Same is true for gun locks. So many guns have been built with Siler locks that I’ve avoided them. Germanic locks of the period generally had internal frizzen screws. Those little details derail me sometimes. Thankfully as said we have many choices.

........"never bought a Beatles album." Mistake #1.

[Bob Roller]

Hi,
All L&R locks require far more work to bring up to a decent standard compared with Chambers.  There is really no comparison, Chambers are much better.  Here is a link to a thread where I describe how to make one L&R product an acceptable lock.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=60628.msg610320#msg610320

dave

I wouldn't try to use an L&R lock as they seem to be oriented to production and
quality control suffers.I have used a lot of their external parts for the Durrs Egg and
small Manton/Bailes/Nock and a few in left hand for double barreled guns.I made
bench crafted mechanisms that worked well.Also have used the Chambers Kate Ketland
and my mechanism and a few Canadian Clark external parts.
I haven't made a lock since August of 2019 and plan no revive of any of them in
flint or percussion.A few triggers every month are now all I am interested in doing.
Bob Roller

[albert]

Several years ago I  bought one of RPL locks to replace a lock , after a few months I  got around on it and the mainspring broke taking it apart , and I  was using a mainspring vise.I  called the company and told them the whole story , and they said they only guarantee for  a month, don't  know how it is now .

[alacran]

I have only bought one Chambers flintlock. It was the Gunmakers flintlock, as I had to fit an existing mortise for an antique gun. The lock worked very well.
 I have to say I really like the L&R Bailes, and the Durrs Egg. Mind you if you are going to use them with a single trigger set up, you will have to work on them, since they have a deep sear engagement with the full cock notch. The ones I've used with set triggers, I haven't encountered any problems with. Of course you need to look at the way they are put together. If you don't like the way it is assembled send it back.
As far as their service I have nothing but praise for them. In the past year they have replaced two cast mainsprings on  older locks, and both were handled as warranty. They did not need to do that as I said they were older locks.
I have used Davis version of the Ron Long locks, as well as Ron Long locks.  Very pleased with them. Larry Zornes M&G classic and Continental locks I really like as well.
Bought a couple of Beatles album, but happy to say I never bought any Springsteen.

[flehto]

For a few yrs I've limited my builds to only Lancasters and Bucks Counties and have used only Chambers locks....Golden Age, Dale Johnson and Late Ketland and only had a problem w/  one lock....a warped lock plate which they quickly  replaced.

When first starting to build,  4 large Silers assembled  by me  from kits were used and performed well. A small Siler bought from Chambers needed some work to ensure the frizzen toggled over and worked well after that...I heard that this frizzen problem was corrected, but haven't bought any more small Silers from Chambers. The reason I assembled the Siler kits was the poor quality of flintlocks back then.

Later on I bought a large Siler from a lock assembler and it was a disaster....spent many hrs correcting his sloppy work.

W/ the advent of new flintlocks presently being offered on the market, the choices of reliable  locks has grown.....Fred

[jerrywh]

I used a lot of L&R locks on pistols and had to re temper all of them as they were too hard and brittle on the internals. Never had any problems with Chambers locks. I just loved them. But I think they would all be better if they had a fly like a Wogdon lock.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Picture, Jerry?

[Jerry]

I have always used L&R locks. Would not consider using any other lock. Dependable locks and customer service is excellent.

[A.Merrill]

    I have used silers since the mid 1970's. The fastest Siler I ever used was a small Siler by Pete Allen and I still have it. The cock is easy to pull back and you can open the frizzen with a feather, it sparks good and flints last forever.  I don't understand why locks today use so heavy of a spring.
   L & R has had their up's and downs I stopped using them back in '80s but I recently bought one for a pistol build and it's as good a lock as any I have ever used. I only thing I found is the sear doesn't return to the same place each time threw the cycle.    Al

[A.Merrill]

   I'm with Flintlock Hunter, the old Silers was the best with a shorter through. All was made this way before Chambers took over. We always thought if you can hear the frizzon spring buzz the locks to slow. Why fix something that's not broken?   Al