J Graeff rifle at auction

[blienemann]

I have been studying the J Graeff rifles that still exist, with help from Scott Gordon and a few collectors, and it turns out there were two brothers - John and Jacob Graeff, born two years apart, and both gunsmiths at Lancaster.  The signatures to date are all J * Graeff, which is not very specific!  This rifle popped up recently - and sold today - https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_A__RELIEF_CARVED_FLINTLOCK_KENTUCKY_RIFLE_ATTRIBU-LOT495079.aspx.  I traded a few emails with Morphy's, without much satisfaction, and I welcome your thoughts.

This looks to me like a poor restock done in the past few decades.  I don't remember seeing any old rifle with wood without wear marks, this color and fresh finish, the unusual beavertails and carving under lock, complicated forestock mouldings, and the carving behind the cheek!  The color of stock and flat black in areas remind me of modern stains and black spray paint for quick aging.  Looking closely at the abused patchbox, there is squiggle or wriggle engraving in several areas, which might suggest an earlier restocking ca 1830 or so.  The lockplate might be original, along with the welded up barrel and other mounts.  I don't believe I have ever seen such poorly designed and executed (and deep) carving as that behind the cheek on an old rifle.  Looks like one of my first attempts at carving.

Perhaps I've gone off the deep end, from looking at too many photos.  I objected to the summation on the auction site - "Gun has great look and is a good example of an early Lancaster-style rifle."  Someone paid $4,500 for it.  What did they receive?  Bob 

[Eric Kettenburg]

In my opinion - just going by zoomed photos - they got a heavily restored and refinished rifle with added 20th century carving.

I don't think it's a restock but I do think someone worked it over heavily and definitely added all that carving.

[rich pierce]

It’s an odd duck; that’s for sure.

[mr. no gold]

Never saw a J. Graeff rifle with Adams County architecture, rather than the musket-like Lancaster profile. Carving is wholly off the wall for Graeff, too. All of his pieces that I have seen have low relief, almost to the point of incised carving, and in the style that we associate with Lancaster. This gun does not have that attribute among the others. Patch box does fit the style but not too much else. Still, a nice gun and someone bought a raised carved rifle at a low price. Just my thoughts on this one. I have had various opportunities to add a Graeff to my wall, but found then a bit too plain for my tastes. Still and all, a good early maker, and usually his pieces go for serious money.
Dick

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
Also note the lock has a roller on the frizzen spring but no pan bridle.  The lock restorer apparently did not know what he was doing.

dave

[blienemann]

Eric, you feel this is the original wood, worked over?  The wood does not look like old, hard maple to me, but something softer like sometimes used today.  But real issue is the wear on the patchbox.  Most engraving is gone, but some wriggle engraving is faintly visible.  Such engraving was not common around 1780 when a classic J Graeff rifle might have been made, but rather with fur trade or similar rifles ca 1830.  This got me wondering if the patchbox has been restocked or reused several times.  Trigger guard is worn.

Dick, thanks for your observations.  There are several J Graeffs out there that are classic Lancaster in style, one with really fine carving and a bit of engraving.  Maybe you will find one.  Or maybe someone will take an old rifle and doll it up to make it fancier?  Just kidding!  My concern is that this is a barrel, lock plate and mounts from Graeff, but rest is someone else's work.  That's quite a bit of $$ for parts.  But again, I may be off the deep end here, and only working from photos - dangerous.

Yes Dave re the lock.  A J Graeff rifle would not carry a roller frizzen lock.

With a review of auction site sales and pics from friends, I've found about a dozen Graeff rifles, all signed or stamped J Graeff, so it's hard to know which brother made which rifle?  Maybe they worked together?  About half of these appear to be restocks.  Bob

[Eric Kettenburg]

Yes, my initial impression *just looking at the photos* is that the stock is old but the carving is not.  You're correct, it doesn't look like sugar maple, it looks like red maple.  I don't think that plays into the authenticity factor or not as I've seen plenty of red maple stocks.  In regard to the faded box wiggle engraving - yes, that does look out of place if considering it a 1780s rifle, but I don't think it's a 1780s rifle.  I think it's later.  Also the engraving could have been added later, just don't know.  Frankly for all we know, given how late the rifle looks, the barrel may be a signed Graef barrel restocked later. 

My impression is that the gun has been worked over so heavily and so many times that it kind of falls into the category of 'I have no idea what's original and what's not.'  Although, I do feel quite strongly that the carving was added much more recently during one of the apparently many refins.

[mr. no gold]

Many patch boxes in the last quarter of the 1700s in Lancaster were engraved and nicely so. Jacob Hoake, Henry Albright, Issac Haines, J.P. Beck and others did some mighty fine engraving. In fact, I wondered at the style and condition of the engraving on the auction gun. Very faint and not much of it. I consider the gun to be a 'reNewed' piece and you can take that any way you wish. 
Dick