Build from a kit or scratch

[smoke]

Hi: Do the rifle builders on here build from a kit or are any builders make all they're own parts other than barrels and locks? 

[Blacksmoke]

smoke:  It all depends on what level your at-- me - I've been at it for over 30yrs. and have only put together one kit and I swore "never again"!  Now I rifle my own barrels as well as make my own locks from "raw" castings. Butt plate and trigger guard  are from sandcastings and I make all of the rest of parts myself from solid stock. That way I only have myself to blame for mistakes  and I enjoy the freedom of doing my own thing!    Hugh Toenjes

[rich pierce]

For pros it depends on what the customer wants, the timeframe, and the costs.  Is a customer willing to pay for 4 hours of work casting parts plus overhead etc or would they rather have you use $20 Reeves Goehring castings off originals?  Most of the time customers don't care how it was made.

For hobbyists, it's fun to try different things, challenge ourselves because we haven't done it all yet.

It's common to get a barrel inletted into a blank and the ramrod channel cut and hole drilled to save time and grunt work.  That's not "cheating" if you've mastered those skills.  Like the original makers, many of the gang here make custom parts when it's needed for the style they are creating- and only then.

There's a lot of subtle  and astonishing customization of "store bought" parts.

[smoke]

Thank's for the answers. What barrels do you prefer?I am going to get a kit and it will have round groove rifling.

[projeeper]

is this your 1st longrifle?
do you have any experience making stocks?
if it is and you do jump in with both feet,don,t be worried about trying anything this ain,t rocket sience,if some of the masters on here had devoted their energy to that we,d be on mars by now.
pick a school and go for it,you,re gonna make a whole slew of mistakes these guys will point them out to you,thats why they,re masters and we,re not.
the research on these rifles is almost as good as building them & if you curdle the milk in someones morning coffee oh well.[sorry mr. getz]
may i suggest that you get the book "gunsmith of greenville county" it sure helped me.
i,ve only done 1 longrifle and am planning #2 for this winter project.
have fun,research,try,suceed/fail,it,s all part of the learning process 10-15 yrs from now on deer stand look down at your 1st long gun  and if it has done it,s intended purpose your faced with question who gets it when i,m gone?
kit or scatch it don,t matter it,s only a gun.heh heh heh

[Potsy]

Building my first from a kit now.  It's probably not going to really copy anything out there other than being "Lancasterish".
If you're pretty good at woodworking, you might work from a blank.  I'm working from a semi-inletted stock (barrel channel and ramrod pipe are inlet, lock is "semi-inlet) and while it's a little less to bite off, I've already picked up on a few things I'm gonna try to do different on my next build (not saying my kit from Tip Curtis was anything less than top notch, but there's not a lot of flexibility with a semi inletted stock).
I'd say up front that I don't have the time nor patience to do a true "scratch build".

[Colonial Riflesmith]

I buy the barrel and lock for safety reasons, and hand make all the other parts when I can. This of course depends on what the customer is willing to pay for and how fast he wants his rifle.

[Tommy Bruce]

I've only built two with kits and two from a blank.  I've had pretty good luck with both kits (one from mold and gun shop and the other a chambers) but the guys are right, not a lot you can do in the way of customization.  I absolutely hate inletting a barrel and doing the ramrod channel so the next one I do from a blank, I'm going to get the barrel inlet and the ramrod channel drilled.  I did attempt one precarved with a swamped barrel inlet that is probably going to end up as firewood.  The lock was inlet in the wrong place and I had to move the barrel back about 3/8 of an inch.  There's a gap in the barrel channel that a truck will go through.  Bottom line is each has there advantages and disadvantages.  Most of the guys on the board with a lot of experience prefer building from a blank.

[Don Getz]

I guess I'm too old to start one from scratch, hate to do all that work that a machine can do.  While I like to work from a
preshaped stock, I will admit that the ones I use I designed, so that does make a difference.   Do you guys realize that
almost all of the guns that John Bivins made were made from pre-shaped stocks, and look at some of Jim Chambers super
rifles......almost all of them are made from his kits.  If you want to work with a pre-shaped "kit" stock, you should know what to look for..................Don

[Dphariss]

Hi: Do the rifle builders on here build from a kit or are any builders make all they're own parts other than barrels and locks? 

I use precarves sometimes. But I really don't like them. I get a great deal of pleasure from making a stock for a plank or blank. I like doing the shaping.
Also the precarves are often a little "off" with their drop at the heel etc and sometime the recoil characteristics suffer. Part of this, I think, comes from  trying to make one stock work for a variety of barrel weights. If you do your own barrel channel start with a straight to get some experience.

If you have a stock design you like you can use it to lay out a stock on a blank and cut it out and go from there.
I have a stock pattern that I think is off an original Armstrong that is the next thing on the agenda.
I should  get to shop, finish a project or two and buy some more parts.

Dan

[b bogart]

I believe I saw a photo of good old Cecil Brooks shop and in the corner was what appeared to be a preshape stock or two. Please don't smack me...I'll have to look it up. At least for a untalented hack like me the architecture is mostly there. Decisions, decisions.....
Bruce

[Frank]

I prefer building from scratch with only the barrel inlet and the ramrod hole drilled. Sometimes the parts do not line up properly on a pre-inletted stock, and that can be a major problem.

[Jim Chambers]

If you're building something not readily available in kit form or just want to build from a blank, AND you have the SKILL AND UNDERSTANDING OF GOOD ARCHITECTURE, by all means build something from a blank at least part of the time.  But, some builder out there who think they know good architecture should be buiding from a good quality kit like Barbie sells.  Just saying......

[smoke]

Hi: I will be building from a kit. I am getting a Chambers English sporting rifle or Tracks Jaeger. I would also like a full stock Hawken but Track does not offer them with round rifling so it will be one of the others. Dan[ Thank You all for the help.Dan

[AndyThomas]

I've gotten to where I generally build three ways now.

Quality, Historically Acrurate Kit - Like a Chambers. Many other "kits" aren't Quaility or Historically Accurate. Kits are fun because they can be done fairly quickly.

Pseudo Kit - Using mostly bought parts, but starting with a blank with bbl inleted. I've gotten away from precarves because I seem to always find something I don't like about it. These are fun because I can spend my time making the stock the way I want it.

Nearly All Hand Made - Starting with a lock, a barrel, and a piece of wood, and making most everything else. Though it's a lot more work, it's still fun because I get to make most of the parts the way I want them to be. There's a certain pleasure that goes with that.

One thing to remember, though, is that a beautiful, functional, historically accurate gun can be made any of the three ways. Some may not ever aspire to make "all" the parts, and some will. It's a personal thing.


Andy

[northmn]

I think I have buildt every part for a rifle or smoothbore except the barrel.  Even the originals used imported parts, like locks.  Also Jacob Dickert was said to ahve made locks for others.  Mostly, I prefer to assemble a gun by buying a stock blank, barrel and lock and all parts except some of the smaller ones like the sights, underpinning lugs and the breechplugs.  Depends on what I want to accomplish and when I want to finish the gun.  The more parts you make the longer it takes.

DP

[LynnC]

Jim C is right

I've always built from a blank.  When I started I out I built some pretty Chunky rifles.  Took me years to learn SLIM

Jims kits have built in archatecture and are well on their way to being nice and slim.

BTW - It's Jim and Herchals fault I started building these durn rifles when I saw their work in Fox Fire 5    My first construction manual 

[jwh1947]

My 2 cents.  If you have never built a rifle before and do not pride yourself on bench skills at first, get a nice kit.  People I know have had success with Jim Chambers kits.  They are darn accurate to the period and county chartacteristics.  If you like that work and want to go further, start with a blank next time.  For the third try you'll likely be calling Fred Miller for a rough-out and barrel inlet.  No shame in this, lots of us do it and are unrepentant.  JWH

[Rolf]

It depends on if you are in a hurry to build something to shoot with, or if you want to learn as much as possible from building. Don't be afraid to start from scratch. When you are stuck, post a question. You'll get a lot of help and good advice form the expert builders on this board.

I'm working on my first build. Its a pair of Kentucky pistols, I've designed myself.
I bought the barrels and the locks. The rest I've made from scratch. So far I've made four practice stocks and a bucket of parts. I've done just about every imaginable mistake, but learned a lot about building pistols. I'm soon finshed with the fifth pratice run. This will be my first complet pistol. What's left is making the muzzle cap, figuring out how to make the buttcap and doing some simple carving. It's taken me a little over a year to get this far. if this one comes out acceptable, I'll start on the pair I'm going to keep.

Best regards
Rolfkt

[northmn]

As stated I build from "scratch" and find the satisfaction for the hobby to be more complete that way.  Rolfkt, you know what I am talking about and I can really relate to what you are doing.  Due to the fact that I wanted to finish it before or during hunting season I just bought a triggerguard for a poor boy rifle I am building.  tiem gets to be an element in our decisions.  really prefer not to have deadlines.

DP  

[hyltoto]

I just finished a gun and had a Colerain 50 caliber swamped barrel and it has round bottomed grooves. I'm gonna try some chamois for leather patching.