Smoothbore fun shootin'

[Nordnecker]

I finally took the time to shoot a little yesterday afternoon. I wanted to try paper shot cartridges and the lubed wads, AKA the Skychief load, in my .54.
I had made up the paper cartridges per Brokennocks' instructions- in my case about 5/8th oz of #6 shot.
I had soaked the B and C wads in olive oil.
I put 55 gr 2ff down the barrel, a thin A card and a lubed B wad went about 1 1/2 down the muzzle with the paper shot cartridge on top. The twisted top was cut off at the muzzle and a thick, wet C wad went on top of that. It was all pushed down the barrel at the same time. It felt slippery and went down easily.
First shot was on a patterning board- just an old piece of sheetrock about 30 yards away. It was a very good pattern, no holes. We saw no evidence of the lubed wad hitting the board. I suppose it would have left a oily mark.
Next, we set up clay pigeons at 35 yards. My buddy took the first shot as I watched. Man, that thing disintegrated! I was surprised. I really didn't think it was going to brake like that.
I took the next shot at a second clay pigeon and the same thing happened again. We had 2 more clays to shoot and were going to shoot at them with patched balls but a winter squall came through and it started sleeting and blowing and we picked up everything and headed home.
The gun cleaned up very easily. It was alot better than my previous experiences shooting shot and getting A LOT of fouling, crud ring, etc. Those lubed wads apparently made a big difference.
Maybe I didn't do something right, but if I did, I'm not sure what it was. I would think if hunting with this, the cushion wad on top would stay in place, wouldn't it?
Thoughts, comments appreciated.

[Brokennock]

Excellent report, thank you.
I've not had that heavily lubed cushion wad that is on top go anywhere while banging around in the woods.

For clarity sake. In the original Skychief recipe, the only lubed component is that last cushion wad sitting on top of everything. For me with that dry, very tight fitting nitro card between powder and shot, this can make reloading a bit difficult. But in my tests removing my lubed felt wad from between powder and shot brought about the advertised improvements in pattern,,,,, along with remembering to put a thin overshot card between shot and lubed cushion wad, lol.
Regardless, sounds like what you did worked very well.

Can you maybe post pics of your components with labels in the order you loaded them?

Thanks again for posting your report.

[Daryl]

I've had no trouble loading my 20 bore flinter, using nothing but 2 over shot wads between powder and shot, then one over shot wad on the shot.
No lube. I've been able to shoot a 20 round event NP with this load. Is it fouled at the end, yes, lots of fouling, but nothing preventing loading it again.
Once, I did put spit on a fiber wad and ran that down over the shot. This did not seem to hurt the pattering.
Won a trap shoot with an original 11 bore H. Whall single using nothing but the thin overshot wads - 3 on the powder, one over the shot.
Just shows one must try 'things' in order to succeed.

[Banjoman]

Daryl,

What is the barrel length of the gun pictured?

Thanks

[Daryl]

Seems to me it was 32"- maybe 34".  I believe it is a ball and shot gun. It only has the front bead, however is very heavily breeched - 1 3/16" (almost 1 1/4") across the flats at the breech just in front of the nipple.
The rest of the barrel tapers rapidly to a fairly thin muzzle wall. In shooting round ball with this gun, the breech diameter gave the proper elevation for shooting patched round balls at 25 yards.
I placed second in the smooth-bore trail walk with this gun, using 10ox. denim (.021") patched  .715", 1 1/4oz. balls.

[Banjoman]

Thanks

[Nordnecker]

Until this shoot, all I had used was the "A" overshot card. I had tried it between the powder and shot as well as on top of everything like Daryl. I had also tried wasp nest. Fowling was a big problem.
I bought these other wads last year but hadn't taken the time to try them.

I see now that maybe the lubed "B" wad might be a problem for a hunting load. It was not a problem at the bench. I did put an A card on top of the powder to keep the lube from getting to the powder but I would be shooting this in short order. If I were hunting, it could be a while (or not at all) before I shot this.

Believe me when I say I'm NOT trying to make this more complicated than it should be. I'm just trying to find something that works in my gun.

The trick now is to streamline this into as small of a pouch as I can so I can grab it quickly and head out the door.

[Panzerschwein]

I didn’t know the Skychief worked with roundball as well, thought it was mostly for shot? Either way so many have had dandy luck with it!

[Daryl]

Nordnecker, streamlining the "carry items" in one reason I like the simple use of overshot "thin" cards that used to be called BB wads or cards.
I think Track calls the thin cards, "B" wads.

The "A" wad is 1/8" thick. That is the normal over/powder wad, then goes the "C" fiber wad, then shot, then the shot, then the "B" .0625"(1/16") wad.
In the 11 bore, I used 3 of the "B" wads between powder and shot, then a single "B" over this.

For hunting, this system, if it patterns OK in your gun, negates the need for lubricant at least for 5-10 shots or so. Whatever your needs are, as long as they are met.

In the choked gun, I can use this system of wads, only the "B"s or, if I want even tighter patterns, I use the standard 'shotshell' type of wad column of multiple different wads.

[Skychief]

Sounds great Nordnecker!  As Brokennock mentioned, you may find denser patterns yet, if you ditch the lubed wad under the shotload.

I've noticed, like you, easier loading and cleanup when using the load versus others.

Thanks for posting your results.  I was particularly interested in your good results with such a small bore.  I've a friend in the UK (Britsmoothy) that cleans house with a 45 smoothbore on a VERY regular basis.  Rabbits, pheasant...you name it.

These reports solidify my plan of buying/building a small bore smoothy.

Good luck and best regards, Skychief.

[Nordnecker]

This is the load in the order it went down the barrel.  I understand my terminology was wrong about the card/wads. The thick one on the end was lubed. Could I eliminate any of these?

[Daryl]

Sounds great Nordnecker!  As Brokennock mentioned, you may find denser patterns yet, if you ditch the lubed wad under the shotload.
Good luck and best regards, Skychief.

This is the one I would ditch as well.
For a little better seal, you could use 2 "B" wads. Individually, they are very lightweight, compared to the "A" 1/8" hard card wad.
The whole blowing of the pattern in cylinder bores, is due to a heavy wad being pushed into the back of the shot column.
Difference between cylinder bore at the muzzle and a choked bore at the muzzle.

[Brokennock]

This is the load in the order it went down the barrel.  I understand my terminology was wrong about the card/wads. The thick one on the end was lubed. Could I eliminate any of these?

Normally I would ditch the nitro card between powder and shot. But, for the Skychief load as prescribed, ditch the thin card before it. Soak that cushion wad that goes in last until it won't absorb any more oil.

Might be worth trying a stack of thin cards in place of the nitro card. Don't know. Might be worth it pattern wise, but seems like a pain in the neck fiddling with enough of them to equal the thickness of the nitro card.

[Nordnecker]

I've been reading and re-reading the responses to this post. I've been thinking, where did I get the idea that I was supposed to use the 1/8" card over the powder? So I went on a search and read all the old threads, here and other forums, about the Skychief load. Sure enough, that is what was recommended.
So, I'll ditch the thin card between powder and shot but keep the 1/8" one for now since it's already loaded. I will try 2 thin cards between powder and shot as well.
I really like the paper shot cartridges and the thick lubed wad on top.

[Daryl]

Do the paper shot ctgs. break when you load them, or do you let the shooting of the gun split them open?
Having the shot wrapped in paper, or post-it notes can really tighten  patterns up.  This type of loading, goes
back to the mid 1800's anyway, with different colours of paper denoting the ranges allowed for shooting birds.
One of them shot so tightly, the range noted was 90 yards, but was also recommended for shooting wolves and
deer to 50yards as the 'charge' of shot remained inside the 'paper' at that range and acted like a solid slug.
I have also heard of using bank coil rolls for holding shot.
Ahhh - I see in your description, you cut off the twisted top, then use a "B" wad over the shot.  This is likely why
your load appears to be shooting such a tight pattern. The paper remains a tube of shot, more slowly releasing the
 pellets.  Good stuff. You may be THERE already.

[Jerry]

Nordnecker, PM sent.

[Nordnecker]

Yesterday, I decided to fire the load that had been sitting in my gun for the last 2 weeks. It went off with no problems.
I noticed a few shreds of paper from the shot cartridge floating down after the shot. I shot a 5 shot roundball group after firing the shot load just because I was going to have to clean the gun anyway.
Afterwards, I found this remnant of the shot cartridge on the ground.

I was a little puzzled by this. It looks like the shot blew a hole in the side of the paper wrap.

[Brokennock]

Yesterday, I decided to fire the load that had been sitting in my gun for the last 2 weeks. It went off with no problems.
I noticed a few shreds of paper from the shot cartridge floating down after the shot. I shot a 5 shot roundball group after firing the shot load just because I was going to have to clean the gun anyway.
Afterwards, I found this remnant of the shot cartridge on the ground.

I was a little puzzled by this. It looks like the shot blew a hole in the side of the paper wrap.

Odd. I either find a few strips the length of the cartridge or just a few tiny shreds,,,,,,,, if I find anything at all. Usually all I find are my thin overshot cards.

How was the pattern?

[Hungry Horse]

 The one thing that hasn’t been mentioned here is the importance of the small gauge of this smoothbore. We all naturally run to the more modern, familiar, big bore shotgun gauges, primarily because thats  the ticket in modern shotguns. We also rely on modern screw in chokes to make those modern beast behave. You can trace the poor performance of big bore scatter guns back through the myriad of chokes, and barrel treatments, used to remedy the short comings of big bores right back to the much beloved jug choke, invented to make the muzzleloading big bore behave.
 But, the small bores don’t suffer from these poor patterns, because they start in a much smaller bore, and even though they also spread its not as fast, or far, as a big bore. Now, we all know there’s no free lunch, the small bores suffer from long shot columns that sting the shot out a lot farther than the big bores. I find it easier to compensate for the long sting of shot, than to try to corral a wide shot pattern without some sort of choke.

  Hungry Horse

[Nordnecker]

How was the pattern? It looked pretty good to me. I tried to post a photo of it but it loaded to 93% and failed.
There were only 3 pellets outside of a 30" circle. At the center of the target it was fairly dense, no hole bigger than 2 inches.

[Brokennock]

How was the pattern? It looked pretty good to me. I tried to post a photo of it but it loaded to 93% and failed.
There were only 3 pellets outside of a 30" circle. At the center of the target it was fairly dense, no hole bigger than 2 inches.

That sounds better than "pretty good." Lol

[Daryl]

Yes, it does. What was the range?

[Nordnecker]

It was about 25 yards. It was too muddy to back up any more than that.
I am still puzzled by the paper cartridge remnant. Perhaps I didn't remember to cut the twist off. I was kinda in a hurry when I loaded it.

[Daryl]

I don't understand the burn pattern, either. I cannot come up with a reason for it to be so circular.
It almost looks like it was the bottom of the paper ctg, that the wads got blasted through it, followed by flame, BUT - the rest of the paper is whole.
Doesn't add up.
In any event, it sounds as if you have a great load for that barrel. I'd not change a thing, other than perhaps trying the load without the hard 1/8" overpowder card
and without the thick wad over top of the shot.
Just using thin "B" wads which come 1000 to a bag, worked in the Wahl gun and also work in my 20 bore.