Edward Marshall Rifle Lock Finished for Now

[Eric Kettenburg]

The problem with pretty much all of the EM "kits" is that they really don't create a believable representation of the rifle.  It's a unique and magnificent piece!

[smart dog]

The problem with pretty much all of the EM "kits" is that they really don't create a believable representation of the rifle.  It's a unique and magnificent piece!

Hi Eric,
I agree completely!  The first time I saw it in the Mercer Museum, I couldn't believe how slim and dainty it was forward of the lock panels.  It is a uniquely beautiful gun.

dave

[Jim Kibler]

Water jet would be super useful for one-off lock building.  Tolernces should be less than .005".  It can cut pretty fast and virtually any thickness of material.   As mentioned, design the whole lock in a simple 2D cad program.  You may be able to find something free.  Have all the part profiles cut out. This will work with everything, even the springs.  Then machine and or file to shape.  If machining a good tip is to soft solder these parts to a bigger piece of steel for machining.  The idea that springs have to be bent to work well is rubish.  Ask Jud Brennan how he makes springs for all of his super high end locks.  No bending involved...

Jim

[smart dog]

Hi Jim,
Thank you!  I will consider that.  My neighbor is a machinist and may know someone locally who does that. 

dave

[sdilts]

Water jet would be super useful for one-off lock building.  Tolernces should be less than .005".  It can cut pretty fast and virtually any thickness of material.   As mentioned, design the whole lock in a simple 2D cad program.  You may be able to find something free.  Have all the part profiles cut out. This will work with everything, even the springs.  Then machine and or file to shape.  If machining a good tip is to soft solder these parts to a bigger piece of steel for machining.  The idea that springs have to be bent to work well is rubish.  Ask Jud Brennan how he makes springs for all of his super high end locks.  No bending involved...

Jim

So, how does Jud do it?

[Stoner creek]

Don’t know the answer to that question. I should have asked him when we talked today.
Here’s one of his locks on a rifle that I have.

[Jim Kibler]

Beautiful lock.  I was talking to him about how I machine springs out and don't bend them and he told me he does the same (presumably with a bandsaw). 

Thanks,
Jim

[David Rase]

So, how does Jud do it?

I think I heard in one of Jim Wright's contemporary gunmakers videos that Jud mills most of his lock components out in lieu of forging them, thus saving his arm and elbow.
David 

[Mike Brooks]

So, how does Jud do it?

I think I heard in one of Jim Wright's contemporary gunmakers videos that Jud mills most of his lock components out in lieu of forging them, thus saving his arm and elbow.
David

I heard Pedersoli makes them for him. You hear alot of that sort of thing in Iowa. Notice I'm gone from Fakebook?  Life long ban......

[smart dog]

Hi,
Making progress.





I love doing this stuff.  I don't rely on making guns for my complete living so efficiency is not my paramount goal, illumination and learning is.  Thanks to everyone who contributed photos and insight.  I appreciate your help and ideas very much.  I want to particularly thank Bob Lienemann for a string of photos and his insights of the original lock that help me immensely. 

dave 

[AsMs]

Dave,

In the photo it appears that the cock of the Zorne lock sits a little higher up on the plate than the original. Also will you have enough metal in the frizzen spring finial to file it to shape.

AsMs

[smart dog]

Hi ASMS,
It does, and I have to live with it.  The pan is also bigger and wider than the original.  However, none of those things will divert from the proper architecture of the original gun.  The frizzen spring has enough excess metal on the finial to file it to shape. The Zorne lock has a number of other issues to deal with but in the end it will work out.  It will actually become a really good lock but that will take some work.

dave   

[smart dog]

Hi,
I got a lot more done although I have to divide my time between multiple projects.  Went from this:




To this:







I retained the mainspring because with some work, it was stout and felt good.  I was intending to forge a new one retained by a screw like the original but the lock plate is too thin to tap a blind hole for the spring screw. So I just worked over and used the one that came with the lock. The surface over which the hook of the mainspring slid on the tumbler foot was straight.  I gave it a slight arc, which gives the spring a bit more let off as the lock is cocked.  I also welded over the the little half moon notch cut in the bottom of the bridle, reshaped the frizzen spring finial as close to the original as I could, made a new sear screw that fit more precisely,  cleaned up the springs and hardened and tempered them, cleaned up and polished all the parts.  Tonight, I will case harden all the lock internals and the frizzen.  After that, I will stop until after the lock is inlet and gun nearly finished .  Then I'll engrave the lock, case harden the plate, flint cock, and top jaw, and tune everything up.  The frizzen is too skinny for me so I am going to sole the face with some excellent high carbon steel.  It will not be an exact copy of the original but sufficiently close to enable me to accurately capture the styling of the original rifle.

dave

 

[smart dog]

Hi,
Polished up the lock and fitted the frizzen with a nice sole of high carbon steel.  Hardened and tempered all the screws heads and then engraved the lock.  The engraving is as close as I can do to the original.  I had to change the double border under the pan because the pan is shallower and wider than the original. The curved border on the original does not fit the shape of this pan very well so I did an angular border.  I also had to improvise for the engraving on the flint cock.  Only a fragment of it survives on the original as the bulk was wiped out when the broken flint cock was fixed.  I think my design is a pretty good replacement and likely is consistent with the original.  Note the engraving is mostly 2 dimensional with little shading or relief as is the original.  Eventually, I will case harden the plate, cock, and top jaw but I am not sure how I'll finish the metal.  Jud Brennan color case hardened his version.  I don't know if there is evidence of that on the original.  Anyway, I am pretty happy with the lock.  It sparks wonderfully and is silky smooth, strong, and probably fast.  It makes a wonderful "snick" sound when pulled to half cock and full.

dave

 

[northup87]

Looks great! Well done!

[rich pierce]

Beauty!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Love this stuff Dave!  I'd like to get some of that special soling steel if you get great sparks with a wooden flint.

[flatsguide]

Dave it is a real treat to see your work and how with a minimum of machine tools you turned that lock into a little jewel. Interesting too how some folks are making springs besides forging them.
Thanks for the eye candy.
Cheers Richard

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thanks for looking and commenting!  Taylor, being hard old growth Sitka spruce from Alaska, that wooden flint sparks like crazy.  

Richard, I am glad you enjoyed the thread.  It was fun to do and every time I try something like this, I learn some new things about locks.  It is pretty amazing what you can do with a file if you have a little skill.

I added another photo showing the lock at full cock.  You can see how the double border frames the flint cock when at full.


dave

[Mike Brooks]

It's very nice but I have found it is difficult to get paid for those kinds of modifications. What do you have, 30-40 hrs in that? That is easily 1K worth of mods on the lock and you haven't even started on the gun yet.

[Bob Roller]

Dave it is a real treat to see your work and how with a minimum of machine tools you turned that lock into a little jewel. Interesting too how some folks are making springs besides forging them.
Thanks for the eye candy.
Cheers Richard

I could not have done any better with my machines and decades of doing this type
of work.Good job,Dave
Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
Thank you very much for that nice comment and encouragement.  It means a lot coming from you.  I work pretty hard at these things and I'm just not afraid to ever jump in and try.  Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't but I enjoy the process. I like to think of myself as carrying on in the tradition of Kit Ravenshear; a little welding here, a little grinding there, a little filing and there you go.   

Mike, I could never punch a clock doing this work because the lock alone would cost many hundreds of dollars.  The bottom line, however, is I don't have to.  I pick and choose my projects based on what interests and challenges me and charge just enough to pay my taxes and utility bills.  The work and the education I get from it are my principal rewards.  I admire guys like you working at making muzzleloaders as a trade and understand the time is money rule but my requirements are not the same. 

dave