Need a little help for a late flintlock rifle

[Monty59]

Hello, today a friend offer me this flintlock rifle not the best condition needs a little restoration also I see on the pics some worm holes. Who of you knows the manufacturer the lock looks original to the gun for me and when could it have been built 18... ? Would be great someone can help me.

Monty

[cshirsch]

The rifle was originally percussion.  Someone changed it to flintlock much later.

[OLUT]

The rifle was originally percussion.  Someone changed it to flintlock much later.

Yup, another "unique" gun. As cshirsch indicated, I too believe that it is a "retroversion" ( Bill Paton's great term for guns that were originally percussion and then somebody converted them to an earlier and incorrect style flintlock). Henry Jarecki was born in 1826 in Prussia. He later set up his shop in Erie, Pa as a "Brass Foundry and Gun Shop". I think he was active in the 1850's until at least the late 1870's

[Tanselman]

Adding to the above comments, which are accurate, the front side facing where lock sits has been "slabbed" with a new piece of wood to re-set the new  replacement lock. You can see the glue joint about 3/16" back from the front of side facing and lock surface. Barrel has been shortened a couple of inches based on current location of rear sight, and muzzle cleaned off and coned for easier loading when gun was restored. But, despite the alterations, you still have a nice, curly maple stocked Jarecki rifle with a clear location stamp of "Erie PA" which is nice to see, and he's not a commonly seen maker. One good detail is that, when the new lock was installed, it was probably smaller than the original percussion lock, or else the restorer would not have removed the old lock mortise by shaving stock down and then building back up with a new slab of wood. That said, an appropriate percussion lock can probably be re-installed in the side facing without much problem, if you want the gun put back into its original configuration so it is more collectible and valuable. Shelby Gallien

[far55]

Not to hijack this thread, but does the cock contact the rear fence on the pan instead of notching out the wood for a shoulder on the rear of the cock?  Is this lock of English origin ?  Thanks, Roland

[mr. no gold]

Monty, looks like Shelby just gave you some great advice. There are people here who can do the things that he suggested, should you wish to do so. I had never heard of the maker and that suggests that there aren't too many rifles around by him. It's a nice little PA gun made/used gun around the time that Lemans were in demand. As it exists now the gun is a bit of a 'stand out' and most collectors would readily detect the problems.

Roland, the lock is referred to as a 'French Lock'; the hammer is a 'French Cock', first used in France, but found popularity in England. You will occasionally find one on an American gun
though they don't seem to have been as desirable. The hammer stops on the edge or fence of the pan rather than the top shoulder of the plate. A Kentucky Pistol was shown on the ALR about a year ago that had a French Lock on it. English dueling pistols often have this type of lock.
Dick

[Tanselman]

A small bit of clarification on this particular lock, after seeing the last question. It is an original percussion lock later modified into a flintlock by adding the flint double-throat cock and welding in the current new pan and frizzen, and adding the frizzen spring. Note the late style roller engraved scrolls at the back of the lock plate, vs. the hand engraved "newer" rays just below the pan to make it look English. There was probably a name stamped on the lock plate originally, such as "Golcher," that was removed during its flint makeover. Another detail that indicates that it was an original percussion lock is the border line that runs completely around the lock plate. On most original flint locks that border is interrupted, or stops briefly, about where the frizzen spring is attached...and the frizzen spring sits too high on this lock plate. Shelby Gallien

[Monty59]

Many Thanks for all the information! It's always nice to see how many people share their expertise here

Monty

[elkhart]

Interesting rifle. I see a pin or something on the rear part of the tang. Is there a screw coming up from the trigger plate or is it a pin peened over?

[Monty59]

Hello again, today I get a few pics from the lock

Monty

[Clint]

I won't argue either way as to whether the rifle was built with a flint lock or percussion, but I would say that the lock on the rifle has been flint for a long time. I also see that nothing on the lock looks hacked, the frizzen fitup is nearly perfect and all of the parts are time sensitive to each other.Whether the gun was converted or not the work was done
 in a very profesional way and was done for a reason which is part of the history of the piece. On a late piece like this, it is possible that the eccentricities of the original owner are at play and the gun was 'converted' while being built.
CW

[Tanselman]

I think the small welding pits on the lock face, mismatch between the roller "engraving" on tail of lock vs. hand engraving on the rays by the pan, tool or file marks left in several places on plate edges, and "selective" areas of modern orange rust tell the true story of this lock. While the workmanship of rebuilding the percussion lock into a flint lock may be good, the originality of the lock, and the rifle as originally built, have been compromised.  Shelby Gallien

[JTR]

I agree with Shelby. The percussion/flint conversion is very clear to be seen in the metal.
The pits on the plate surface below the pan and the diagonal line on the top of the plate just behind the pan fence tells the tale.
John

[Monty59]

as i saw the new pictures of the lock I also thought that it looks strange under the pan that was welded there you can see very good the pits on the lock plate

Monty

[AMartin]

Hey Monty ..

Is this rifle in Germany If so how did it get there
I have no info on this gun .. neat ol rifle !!!

Give me a call sometime.. we need to catchup  once again !!!
Allen

[cshirsch]

Hello again, today I get a few pics from the lock

Monty

Lock was converted to flintlock.