Getting closer with the smoothbore...

[Mike from OK]

Plenty more testing to do but I'm seeing improvement... My little one and I took the smoothbore out to work on load development for about an hour today. I started at 50 yards but I was completely off the paper so we moved to roughly 25 yards.

The 4 unmarked holes at the bottom were .600 balls/.018 pillow ticking lubed with Lehigh Valley Lube... Not my usual choice but I had somehow managed to get out of the house without my tin of Track's Mink Oil. I wasnt really pleased with those results...

I had a bag of .610 balls in my shooting box and an old wasp nest so I started loading the .610's bare over 110 grs of Goex 2f and a wad of wasp nest over the ball... I attribute the first shot being high to me still trying to figure the sights out. Although I would also say that the bore was probably relatively clean from the previous .600 ball/patch combos being tight enough to wipe the bore... Subsequent shots #2 and #3 were pretty good. But as shots #4&5 show, as soon as fouling started to build things started to drop to less than acceptable levels. However I swabbed the bore with LVL soaked patches and #6 is back up closer to #1. And #7 back in the bull.

I cannot quite remember where in the shot string that #? occurred. It was getting to be late afternoon and little one was starting to get a bit chilly so I didn't follow my usual habit of walking to the target every time to mark each shot.

It looks like a bare .610 ball works well. Unfortunately, I have no .610 mold. I do have both .595 and .600 molds so I will try bare ball loads with both of those size balls and see how they perform before attempting to procure a .610 mold.

It appears that wiping between shots may be necessary... Only further experience will tell.

I also plan on trying different powders, granulations, and charges to see if I can fine tune these results a bit and also see if I can stretch the distance out to 50 yards or more.

Mike

[walks with gun]

  Just curious but did you ever try dropping your powder charge to 80-90 grains and see if the groups tightened.   I shoot pretty good in the morning but if shooting after lunch my groups ALWAYS open up no matter what gun I'm using.  I've watched my brother in law do the same thing so I'm writing it off as old eyes and afternoon lighting.  I do my load development and gun testing in the mornings now when fresher.

[Mike from OK]

  Just curious but did you ever try dropping your powder charge to 80-90 grains and see if the groups tightened.   I shoot pretty good in the morning but if shooting after lunch my groups ALWAYS open up no matter what gun I'm using.  I've watched my brother in law do the same thing so I'm writing it off as old eyes and afternoon lighting.  I do my load development and gun testing in the mornings now when fresher.

I plan to reduce my charge next round... I used 110 this time because that is what I had used the last time I saw improvement.

I may make a chart and work my through powder brand, granulation, charge size, and ball size and do it by the numbers and see what happens.

Just changing to Swiss powder made an immediate improvement on group size with my .45 rifle. Of course comparing rifles and smoothbores is apples to oranges... But I plan to try as many variations as possible to see what works and what doesn't with this particular gun.

Mike

[Mike from OK]

Any info on MIN/MAX loads for round ball in a .62/20 smoothbore, both 2f and 3f, would be appreciated.

Mike

[Brokennock]

You may want to try a thinner patch, and/or a thinner patch with a thin card between patch and powder.
I settled on a load of 80 grains 3f, thin card, lubes felt wad, .610 ball, thin card,,, for my smoothrifle. This was after unacceptable groups with tight patch/ball combos, but seeing improvement with a looser load. The above load, at 80 grams was better than all others.

Until,

I started seeking a load with a lighter powder charge to comply with a lock club's rules.
Turns out that out to 50 yards I can match the above load's performance with a .595 ball and lubed .010 patch, with or without thin card between powder and patched ball, sitting on 65 grains 3f. Interestingly the above .610 with wadding combo shoots pretty well, as does a .600 ball with wads or paper cartridge, at 65 grains 3f.
These three 65 grain loads all shoot to the same point of aim out to 50 yards with just a slight variation of group size.

[Maven]

Mike, You've got at least 6 variables to juggle:  powder granulation; powder charge; ball diameter; how the RB is loaded, i.e. patched? card stock wads fore and aft, card stock wad over RB, tow wads fore and aft; tow wad atop RB; lube type and whether you mop the bore after each shot or not; and sight picture/cheek weld.  If it were me (trust me I've been there), I'd select one RB diameter and powder granulation and charge, e.g., 70gr. FFg, and manipulate the others for a minimum of five shots each.  I also would start @ 25 yd. (or meters), at least at first.  Btw, I think barrel quality, which we can't [easily] change is another variable to ponder.  Happy testing!


P.S. I've found patch thickness, barring extremes, makes less difference in a SB than it does in a rifle.

[Panzerschwein]

  Just curious but did you ever try dropping your powder charge to 80-90 grains and see if the groups tightened.   I shoot pretty good in the morning but if shooting after lunch my groups ALWAYS open up no matter what gun I'm using.  I've watched my brother in law do the same thing so I'm writing it off as old eyes and afternoon lighting.  I do my load development and gun testing in the mornings now when fresher.

My first group or two are always the best of the day as well.

[Mike from OK]

Thanks guys, lots of good info and plenty more stuff to try... Seems variables are infinite with a smoothie.

Again... I could use some suggestions for the upper limit of powder charge so I don't unknowingly wander into "blow my face off" territory.

Mike

[Daryl]

For a suggestion on load combinations, take a look at the grouping and loads used in smoothbores in this month's Postal match. Note that these
'targets' were shot offhand at 25 yards, without rear sights.

[smylee grouch]

If your load combo is shooting dirty I would think you need a tighter combo with lots of good lube. A more consistent face/cheek weld will always help too. Consistent placement of the gun on the bags is also a key factor.

[utseabee]

    Smoothbores seem to have a mind of their own with no two being alike. I have two that like completely opposite loading techniques.  One likes tight patches and heavy powder charges and the other likes looser loads with lighter powder charges. in my .62, I use 60 grains of 2F, .600 round ball, and .018 patches. It may take some experimenting, but you'll soon find what it likes. Enjoy the journey!

[Mike from OK]

If your load combo is shooting dirty I would think you need a tighter combo with lots of good lube. A more consistent face/cheek weld will always help too. Consistent placement of the gun on the bags is also a key factor.

Done. Shooting off of a table with left hand holding the forestock and resting on a bag. Gun only has a front sight... Gun shoots right of POA so the bull is held at the base and just left of it.

Mike

[Hungry Horse]

 Try using the smaller balls if you’re going to shoot multiple shots. The accuracy will diminish but not as fast as it will with the bigger balls.
 My trade gun has a similar sighting formula. I found on mine using the corner where the sight blade and the base converge as kind of a peep sight works very well, and is repeatable.

  Hungry Horse

[Maven]

Any info on MIN/MAX loads for round ball in a .62/20 smoothbore, both 2f and 3f, would be appreciated.

Mike, Mike Beliveau (aka duelist1954) has done extensive work with a SB and less than bore sized RB's using tow wads fore and aft.  You may want to google him (and SB loading), but he used as much as 110gr. of FFg with that combination and got impressive results @ 50 yd.  I followed his regimen using a .598" RB, but got ~6" groups, ~8" to the right of my point of aim at that distance.

[Hungry Horse]

Paul lose the rear wading it breaks up the cone of hot gas that centers the ball in the bore. I shoot a hundred grains of 2F, and sometimes less on close shots. I actually prefer old wool blanket for wadding with a little venison tallow on it. I’ve also had good luck with dimpled balls combined with this load.

  Hungry Horse

[Maven]

Hungry Horse, I'm inclined to agree with you about the rear wadding, as two wads (fore & aft), whether card stock or tow, didn't produce the accuracy I was hoping for in my trade gun with either .598" or [bore diameter] .618" RB's.  Once the weather moderates a bit, I'll have to do more testing as per your suggestion.  Thanks for the tip!

[Mike from OK]

Paul lose the rear wading it breaks up the cone of hot gas that centers the ball in the bore. I shoot a hundred grains of 2F, and sometimes less on close shots. I actually prefer old wool blanket for wadding with a little venison tallow on it. I’ve also had good luck with dimpled balls combined with this load.

  Hungry Horse

I remembered you saying this before and is the reason why I ditched the patches after 4 very underwhelming shots... However, I also went from a .600 patched ball to a .610 bare ball... So I plan to drop back and shoot the smaller diameter balls bare and see if it still bears out. Hopefully it does.

Us snotnosed kids listen to what you older fellas say more often than you think.

Mike

[Brokennock]

Paul lose the rear wading it breaks up the cone of hot gas that centers the ball in the bore. I shoot a hundred grains of 2F, and sometimes less on close shots. I actually prefer old wool blanket for wadding with a little venison tallow on it. I’ve also had good luck with dimpled balls combined with this load.

  Hungry Horse

How well does this work if one doesn't want to, or can't, dump 100 grains or more of powder down the barrel every shot?
From everything I've read and seen, the less one uses to mechanically keep the ball in place in the bore, patches, wadding, etc, the more powder one needs.

Also, can you please explain to those of us who apparently are not getting the good groups we think we are getting with less than 100 grains of powder and patches or wads,,,,
just how does this "come of gas," created by the combustion of a very basic and irregularly surfaced powder,, become so perfectly symmetrical, pushing equally all around the base of the less than perfect sphere that is a lead "round" ball?

[elkhart]

I tightened up the tang bolt on my 28 gauge trade gun and found it pulled the groups in more. Just another variable!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I cannot answer theoretical questions such as those, and to those who find naked ball shooting satisfies their need for accuracy, I say wonderful.
I can however tell you what works for me.  And that is to load the smoothbore just like I load my rifles, ie:  with a charge that stabilizes the ball out to whatever range I choose, and a tight fitting, thick patched and heavily lubricated denim patch/ball, .020" smaller than the bore.  I use a starter that has a moose antler crown knob about 2" in dia. x 2 1/4" long, a 1/2" hickory rod about 6" long, and a short 1/2" brass peg cupped to fit the ball x 3/8" long.  For my 20 gauge Chambers' Fowler with a .620" bore, I load 86 gr. of FFg GOEX, place a .020" 8 oz. (.020") patch lubed with anything but lots of it, over the muzzle and place the ball (.608" coming from a Lee .600 mould) sprue up on the patch.  I use the short peg on the ball and a smack with my other hand on the back of the starter knob, driving the patched mall 3/8" into the muzzle of the barrel.   Then the long leg of the starter is placed on the ball and another smack sends it and the patch 6" down the bore.  The ramrod easily pushes the ball/patch down to the charge and is firmly pressed against the powder, but not bumped or banged with the rod.  Loading and shooting like this, I never have to wipe my bore during a day's shooting.
I have filed my front sight down so that when sighting, I place the tip of the front sight where I want the ball, and see the entire front sight down to the barrel sitting on top of the wedding band.  With a sharp flint , ignition is very fast, and the ball strikes centre, if my hold and follow through are good.  For distances past 50 yards, I have to see more barrel between the base of the front sight and the wedding ring.  If the light is right, I often see a reflection of the front sight in the shine of the browned barrel, and I use that as a mark on the barrel to judge for longer ranges, out to 100 yards +.  Works for me, though I confess, I've never tried naked balls and wads...couldn't deal with the caked up fowling - just me.

[Daryl]

I load my smoothbore similarly to Taylor, but use a .595" ball & slightly thicker patch, 10 ounce denim I measure compressed at .021"(in my new calipers).
The old calipers measured this material at .0225". I also use between 80gr. & 85gr. 2F - usually. No wiping is needed and accuracy does not change during
shooting, no matter how many shots are fired.

[hanshi]

The 20 ga smoothbore I use has a somewhat tight bore.  The best accuracy, and great "deer dropping" power comes with a .600" ball, .012" patch and 70 grains of 3F.  Accuracy remains constant with 60 grns to 75 grns of powder.  At 50 yards three shot groups averaged just under 3" with this load.  No swabbing was done, and the load seated easily shot after shot.  And the load isn't tight but rather loose enough to manage a thumb start; just a peculiarity of the barrel, I guess.  This load is about all I ever shoot.  The gun has a rear sight which makes shooting easier (for me).

"Bare" ball is rarely fired in this gun.  With an op card and the ball seated on a felt or cushion wad (lubed) as one unit and then another card wad all shots stay on a pie plate at 50 yds.  This translates to around 5" average and often under the 3" mark for 3 shots.  The only real problem with loading without a patch is the occasional flier.  Don't know if this helps at all but it has been my experience.