Author Topic: Rebrowning A Barrel  (Read 3671 times)

Ctanke

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Rebrowning A Barrel
« on: January 27, 2021, 09:02:42 PM »
Greeting wise ones!  I would like to “rebrown” a barrel that is 30 years old using the cloud method with a humidity box. I think I understand the process, but had a question about uneven “smudges” that were created when the barrel was first browned. See picture. Can I card these down with steel wool (or other) to make smooth before I begin laying down coats or is this a bad idea?  Thanks in advance for your help!





Ctanke

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2021, 09:06:14 PM »
Ugh - meant  to say “cold” method!

Offline Daryl

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2021, 09:19:45 PM »
Not sure how to remove the "old" bluing surface, other than draw filing.
There might be a chemical process. I don't think you can go ahead and brown
it over the current surface. Perhaps someone else knows a better method?
Daryl

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Offline jerrywh

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2021, 11:21:04 PM »
You need to sand the whole barrel down to a smooth even surface. Any shortcuts will result in an inferior end result.  It is like painting a car. Prep is everything.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2021, 12:07:22 AM »
What about using a fine wire brush on a grinding machine? any ideas using that method?
Rob

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2021, 12:23:25 AM »
In my opinion, and I'm guessing Jerry's too, there are no short cuts to achieving a satisfying result.  The barrel needs to be drawfiled down to the bottom of any existing blemishes, then polished again by hand if a smooth shiny brown is to be achieved.  You can go to the brown box immediately after drawfiling, but recommend the smoother finish and carding to make it look right.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Ctanke

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2021, 12:39:38 AM »
So if I draw file to smooth those areas out, will this remove the browning significantly in those areas? If so, would that make refinishing the entire barrel any more difficult, or wound multiple carded coats remove all sins?
Thanks

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2021, 12:52:14 AM »
If you don't completely remove the blemishes down to fresh steel, nothing will cover them up in the browning process.  Browning is in effect an anti-rust coating on the surface of the steel, and it must be mechanically removed, (cut) to get to fresh steel, prior to de-greasing and browning.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline R Whittington

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2021, 12:57:04 AM »
You can’t just file the blemishes. You must draw file the entire barrel. At least the areas not covered by wood.
Ric Whittington

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2021, 01:25:48 AM »
I agree, almost!  Yes, you should drawfile the entire barrel.  If it were my project, I'd then polish backing abrasive cloth with a large flat file starting at 120 grit, and ending at about 320.  Polish lengthwise, just like you did when you drawfiled, removing all marks left by the previous regime. then de-grease thoroughly (I use Comet and a Scotchbrithe pad) flush with clean water, dry with paper towel, and handle only by the pegs you've driven into the breech and muzzle.  Never touch the barrel after polishing, with your fingers.
While you are de-greasing, prepare your damp box so it's ready to start when you are.  Lay the barrel on wooden V blocks by the pegs, to apply the solution.  I use  a roll of cotton cloth about two inches long and 5/8" in diameter.  Dampen the roll and squeeze out the liquid before you apply to the raw steel.  Start at one end and apply using even pressure from breech to muzzle only on one flat at a time.  Do not go back over areas you've applied solution to.  Rotate the barrel one flat at a time until the whole barrel has one even application.  Use a Q tip for sight dovetails and around barrel tenons.  Be very careful not to let the solution run, even a little.  Remember to apply a coat on the muzzle around the peg.
I hang my barrel by screw eyes in the wooden pegs and hooks on the ceiling of my damp box, starting muzzle down.  I record the time and apply the next coat in 2  - 3 hrs., alternating hanging from the breech to the muzzle each time.  the barrel is not in contact with anything in the box - hangs freely.
After the second app. the barrel should be covered fairly evenly with light brown/red rust.  I run it down hard with a roll of canvas cloth about 1 1/2" dia, x 5" long.  I use only one end of the roll which gets very rusty coloured but removes all of the loose scale.  If you have given your barrel a high polish, ie: 600 - 1200 grit abrasives, you will likely want to card further with 0000 steel wool.  After 6 - 8 apps like this, you will have a deep brown colour IN the steel rather than ON it.  Without carding you will end up with a coarse rough pebbly brown that may be subject to flaking.

When you are done and satisfied with the colour, and have carded for the last time, take the barrel (by the pegs) to the laundry room sink and pour boiling water  ( a full kettle full) down the barrel.  This will remove any latent solution and heat the barrel.  Then scrub the barrel with a solution of baking soda and water, or with liquid ammonia, to neutalize the acids in the browning solution.  Flush with clean water, dry the barrel and apply a sealer like motor oil, floor wax, etc.  Allow to cool, remove the pegs, clean the bore immediately in case any water entered around the pegs.  Step back and admire the professional, even, lustrous, even brown.

I am assuming all this is new to you, judging by the questions you have asked so far.  I intend for this to be positive instruction and not an insult to your experience or intelligence.

Oh, one more thing:  if a black/blue is preferable to the brown, before you card it for the last time, boil the barrel in a tank of DISTILLED water for about 20 min - 1/2 hour.  Then card using 0000 steel wool or a Brownell's carding wheel.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Ctanke

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2021, 03:08:26 AM »
Not at all D Taylor!
I really appreciate knowing you process.
I understand getting the barrel smoothed down to 320 grit before starting to brown. I was thinking I’d then card with 0000 steel wool between coats until the desired effect. However you also mentioned higher polished grits (600-1200) as an option. Please advise, Chris

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2021, 03:28:16 AM »
Taylor, thanks for the write up on browning. I see a humidity box in my near future, do you have a rough sketch of one you could show.
Thanks Richard

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2021, 06:19:10 AM »
I found this photo, I wish I new who made it to give credit. Are the normally tight like this with no ventilation, but I guess that would defeat the purpose.
Richard


Offline borderdogs

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2021, 04:12:26 PM »
Taylor,
What is a Browning carding wheel?
Rob

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2021, 04:36:54 PM »
Taylor,
What is a Browning carding wheel?
Rob


I'm not sure what Taylor uses, but this is a Brownell's carding wheel that works well for me. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/wire-brushing-carding-tools/4-row-sku360164631-6762-16501.aspx

Don Richards
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Offline borderdogs

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2021, 04:52:26 PM »
Thanks Don,
I didnt know it was a carding wheel but I have seen people in video's taking a rust film off a barrel using a wire wheel I am figuring it was a carding wheel. I have a browned barrel that hasnt stopped rusting that I need to work on so I am interested in this thread.
Thanks,
Rob

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2021, 06:16:40 PM »
I use a piece of course denim from an old pair of blue jeans for carding, quick and easy.



Offline Richard

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2021, 07:00:33 PM »
The damp box that I built looks very similar to the one in the picture. One thing I do is, to wet down the interior before putting the barrel in. Use an old Windex sprayer or something similar to mist the interior wood. I'm in a dry climate, so I find it helps. The other thing is to be careful what type of metal hook you use if your going to hang the barrel from the tang. Some steels, especially if zinc plated will have a galvanic affect around the hole in the tang and result in a discoloration in the finished browning/bluing.

R

Offline rick/pa

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2021, 07:32:59 PM »
The damp box is real similar to the one John Bivins described in an article in Gunsmithing Tips and Projects published by Wolfe Publishing. Bivins had a number of articles in that volume that are worthwhile reading. I believe its still available from TOTW for $39.95, but you can get it cheaper used on Amazon...............https://www.amazon.com/Gunsmithing-Tips-Projects-Dave-Wolfe/dp/0935632816


Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2021, 08:34:23 PM »
I built my damp box according to John Bivins' instructions, using plywood I found at the dump, a couple of ceramic bulb fixtures, a dimmer switch, a stainless steel mixing bowl, etc.
I lined the heat box in the bottom with some asbestos sheeting that I bought at our local hardware store, but I assume that sort of thing is no linger sold.  I also installed a plywood cover for the water bowl to help diffuse the moisture a bit...I think it helps with my set up.  the cover is open by about two inches along the front edge. The barrels hang down along the back of the box leaving room for two trays for other small parts.  Nothing touches the walls.
I install wooden plugs in the muzzles of the barrels into which I screw screw eyes to attachment to the ceiling of the box.  Some are brass - some are galvanized.  They don't touch the steel I want browned, so it doesn't matter.  In the breeches, I install custom plugs which have holes for attaching to the ceiling.  I never brown a barrel with parts attached, ie:  sights, plugs.  I don't remove the barrel tenons, however.

The dimmer switch on the outside of the box controls the amount of heat inside the box.  The heat is generated by the two 300 w. light bulbs:  one in the bottom to heat the water and cause evaporation, and the second on the side of the box to heat the compartment.  You will find the happy spot where the heat and moisture are balanced and contribute ideally to a perfect oxidation of the steel...too little, it takes too long...too much and you pass the dew point and droplets form ruining the browning job.

Wetting down the inside of the wooden box is a good idea...will give that a try.

If you intend to card the loose rust away with 0000 steel wool, you might want to give the barrel a better polish that just 180 grit.  The longitudinal scratches will show, otherwise.  It's up to the expectations of the builder.






D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline wmrike

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2021, 08:54:51 PM »
For clarification, will the oil on steel wool cause problems if any additional rusting is required?  I ask because Brownells offers an oil-free wool for such purposes.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2021, 08:58:20 PM »
I have heard that as well, though I've never had any issues with steel wool, right out of the box.  If I think about it at the time, sometimes I'll pour some acetone through the wool prior to engaging the steel.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2021, 09:12:00 PM »
Taylor,
What is a Browning carding wheel?
Rob

Brownell's carding wheel. Brownell's is a gun parts/tools/etc, business. Google it.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2021, 10:54:06 PM »
I spelled it wrong I know who who Brownell's is I just didnt know what a carding wheel was.
Thanks,
Rob

Offline Daryl

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Re: Rebrowning A Barrel
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2021, 04:07:23 AM »
Very soft wheel of wire in a wooden backing, for carding the barrel between coats and/or after browning.
Spun with a grinder motor (I think or in a  drill press.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V