What solder to chose for lugs on a swamped barrel?

[Rolf]

What solder and flux would you recommend for soldering lugs on the waist of a swamped barrel?

Best regards
Rolfkt

[Birddog6]

I use StarBright silver bearing solder & a paste flux. I clean it good, wipe it with a liquid flux, then put a lil paste flux on it, cut a piece of solder & mash it flat in clean pliers, put it between the barrel & underlug, put the lil retainer clamped to hold it in place & put the heat to it. Soon as it solders take the heat off & let cool.   

[P.Bigham]

 Brownells  HI-Force 44 with No.4 comet flux

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Birddog6, targets of opportunity, enemy vehicles in the open, do you have assets? Over........OOOooops!  ....  another life!!   Sorry

Hey, it looks like you have inlet the lug in the barrel. What factors cause you to go to the trouble of soldering the lug too, instead of just staking it in the slot???

[Birddog6]

It looks like it is inlet but it is not, must be the camera angle & flash. It is just sitting on the top flat of the barrel with a clamp over it. In fact, the barrel is inlet & pinned in the stock.  Some time ago someone had asked this & I just stuck that on there & took the photo quickly.   I have dovetailed & soldered the underlug for a sling swivel before, but a underlug on the waist of a thin barrel I just solder them to the barrel. 

[Acer Saccharum]

Rolfkt, I use plumbing solder, and plumber's flux. I don't believe you need anything super strong, as you are just holding the wood to the stock with the lug.

That is 95.5% tin and 4% copper, and .5% silver (this is modern lead-free plumbing solder)

Also just as effective and easier to use is 50%lead and 50% tin solder. Banned in this country for plumbing, but fine for other uses. You can make your own if you can get the metals.

I use a rosin based flux, as it does not corrode the metals afterwards.

I like to tin both parts with solder before assembling. This way, I know I get a 100% joint, and no entrapped flux.

To tin steel:
Polish the steel bright. Coat the steel with flux. As it heats up, put a little chunk of solder on the spot where you want the lug. When you get the steel hot enough to melt the solder, take a bit of steel wool with a little flux on it. Scrub the area with the steel wool and this will coat the steel with a glossy smooth film of bright solder.  Too much heat will burn the flux and oxydize the steel, preventing the solder from flowing. So once that little chunk melts, back off on the heat. If the solder goes frosty, it's too cool, so add a little more heat and continue to spread the solder around.

[David Veith]

I do it much the same as Acer but have been using Rosin Paste Rosin Core Solder. The thought is to keep the acid down so that it doesn't do as much rusting. If it is good enough for electrical it is for me. Just my two cents
David Veith

[Randy Hedden]

Rolf,

Here is a tip that you might want to consider.  The spring clamp that Dan showed is fine and I recommend it, but I always affix the under lug with the spring clamp and then turn the barrel upside down so the underlug is facing down toward the floor before heating it.  This keeps any unwanted solder off the barrel.  This is a good way to solder front sights on an oct/rnd barrel.  Removing solder from an under lug or front sight is better than trying to remove it from the barrel.

Randy Hedden

[Acer Saccharum]

Tin both surfaces with solder before you clamp up your pieces. You will have a 100% solder joint.

If you don't tin your steel first, you may only get solder on the outside of the pieces. Steel is hard to solder without tinning unless you use an acid flux. But with acid, you get rust, so I avoid it whenever I can.

[flintriflesmith]

Just out of curiosity, can anyone point to an American Longrifle with an octagon barrel that has the loops soldered on?

I believe this entire thread is a solution to a non-existant problem. Learn how to cut period correct dovetails and there is no need for a solution that, in the period, would have required heating the nearly finished barrel in a forge.

I will now crawl back into my cave where using period techniques whenever possible still has some importance to the process of rifle building.

Gary

[Don Getz]

I somewhat agree with you Gary.   I know of some good gunbuilders who solder the underlugs on, but I have not succombed to this process, except, on an octagon to round barrel.   I know you can cut dovetails into a round barrel, I
for some strange reason, don't like to do it.   I will admit, the gun I am doing now has an octagon to round rifle barrel on
it, and I soldered the underlugs onto it, but I don't like them.   I think the next one will go back into the milling machine,
ha, got you there...I still don't like to do it by hand............Don

[chris laubach]

On an octagon barrel why would you want to solder them on??




Chris Laubach

[Chuck Burrows]

Learn how to cut period correct dovetails and there is no need for a solution that, in the period, would have required heating the nearly finished barrel in a forge. Gary

Gary - How about a short tutorial on how-to or pointing out where this can be learned i.e. books, videos, etc.

[Michael]

Wallace showed us how to dovetail loops in one of his 'mini' seminars at the NMLRA gunsmithing classes in Bowling Green, Ky a couple of years ago. I think it took less than five minutes start to finish, and his dovetail was not very deep and certainally shallow enough to do it on a round barrel.

Michael

[northmn]

I build a few fowlers and much prefer to solder on the lugs as the walls get pretty thin.  You can with a dovetail chisel, put in a lug pretty quick, but for thin walls like on the waist of a swamped barrel or on round barrel fowlers prefer a soldered joint.  I have used 50/50 lead tin solder with very good results on more than one weapon.  The fluz is called NOKORODE or something like that.  Tin as stated.  A soldered on lug is very quick to make as you sqeeze a piece of thin metal in a vice and then spread out the base with a chisel.  You can make the lug in about 5 minutes as compared to some of the process for dovetailed ones. You can also get a pretty strong fit on a round barrel as the lug can be wrapped a ways around the barrel. With a little modification I admit to making a dovetailed lug in this manner, only I braze at the T. On those parts that do not show vs period correct you can get into quite a debate as barrels get inletted in various ways from CNC to hand chisels, I use an electric drill to inlet drill a ramrod hole. Some original barrel channels have been described as being more round than octagon, etc.

DP

[flintriflesmith]

Learn how to cut period correct dovetails and there is no need for a solution that, in the period, would have required heating the nearly finished barrel in a forge. Gary

Gary - How about a short tutorial on how-to or pointing out where this can be learned i.e. books, videos, etc.

I'll do that when a get to that step on the rifle I'm building.
Gary

[Acer Saccharum]

I can understand the desire to do this PC, but I also believe there is rerason to solder lugs on with certain barrels.

In general, our modern barrels seem to have gotten much thinner in the waist than their ancestors ever were. When that wall is thin to begin with, I'd prefer to solder a lug on than cut into an already thin bbl wall.

I, too, look forward to your tutorial on lugging, Gary.

Tom

[David Rase]

I believe this entire thread is a solution to a non-existant problem.
Gary

I agree.  I cut dovetails for both round and octagon barrels.  Never soldered a lug on yet.
DMR

[Dphariss]

I can understand the desire to do this PC, but I also believe there is rerason to solder lugs on with certain barrels.

In general, our modern barrels seem to have gotten much thinner in the waist than their ancestors ever were. When that wall is thin to begin with, I'd prefer to solder a lug on than cut into an already thin bbl wall.

I, too, look forward to your tutorial on lugging, Gary.

Tom

I just did three in the bottom of a GM 38" B weight 50 cal. The middle one is only .020 deep.
.725 - .0522 (estimated groove diameter) divided by 2 minus the dovetail depth gives a wall of about .080.
3/8" dovetail. Made the underlugs from .040 sheet brass, silver soldered. Then peaned into the dovetail to tighten and work harden the brass.
This barrel is going into a rifle the owner had me look over. It was dovetailed about 1/2 the wall depth at the front 2 under lugs. Long dovetails as well. I told him I would not shoot it.

GM barrels are harder and will hold shallow dovetails better.

Dan

[hyltoto]

I had a shop teacher show me how you can use pencil lead to keep the solder from sticking to areas where you don't want it too. Just use a pencil and darken the areas around your lug etc and the solder won't stick. Of course this the same 8th grade shop class whre were soldered with torches and copper "irons" spliced telegraph wire, and forged a hay-hook. Man I wish I could turn back the clock. These new solders may be more agressive so try it on some scrap first.

[Stophel]

The dovetails on store-bought tenons need to be filed down to about half (or less) of their original thickness.

I dovetail them in AND solder them.  I don't want them suckers coming loose.   

Just ordinary tin plumbing solder.  Heck, lead solder will work fine.

I've never been able to get rosin flux to work very well.

[jwh1947]

I dovetail them and whack the overlying barrel with a drift pin and ball peen hammer twice on both sides and have never had one come loose.  Yes, the store bought ones are way too thick in the base.  Work them down.  I solder only on round barrels.