Author Topic: W. Richards double percussion shotgun (Read 6577 times)

pilot · « **on:** February 06, 2021, 03:21:53 AM »

Does anyone know anything about these? I'll try to get some pictures posted of it. I think it is 12 gauge. The top rib is marked "London Fine Twist". It has W. Richards on the locks.

google photos io 2017

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2021, 07:50:15 AM »

From what I can see, I think it may prove to be Belgian.
Need a few more photos though, Pilot.

wormey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2021, 08:00:51 AM »

Belgian made, imported in the billions...percussion and breechloader. Sold out of hardware stores including Sears Roebuck. Most are pretty well made and are good shooters. Condition is everything. Make sure the barrels are not loose. If you are not sure have someone who understands black powder guns take a look at it before shooting! Notice I said black powder....most modern gunsmjths know very little to nothing about black powder guns. Wormey

pilot · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2021, 02:53:21 PM »

Yes, appears to be Belgian. I got into it fairly cheap thinking it was only a shooter. The barrels are pretty cruddy inside, but should clean up okay. I'll try to do that today. If it ends up being something I can hunt with I'll be happy.

T*O*F · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2021, 03:35:49 PM »

Quote

Yes, appears to be Belgian.

W. Richards (not Westley Richards) was an English gunmaker. Check the proof marks to see if they are English or Belgian. People are too quick to label them.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2021, 06:54:54 PM »

TOF,

Westley Richards was an English gumnaker. Lot of knock-offs used his name though.

The quality of the above says not a made by them.

Longknife · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2021, 07:35:50 PM »

There are many W Richards reproduction guns throughout the world. A genuine gun will have W Richards (Gunmakers) Liverpool Ltd (or Preston/London etc) stamped on the rib between/above the barrel(s)."

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2021, 07:58:14 PM »

A dead giveaway that its origins are in Belgium would be if the barrels are brazed together rather than soldered.

Hungry Horse

pilot · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2021, 09:06:24 PM »

Here is the bottom of the barrels. I can't make out what the proof mark is, but it doesn't look like the British mark.

smokinbuck · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2021, 01:36:30 AM »

I have a 12 GA W Richards that has been marketed here on ALR. They are a pretty substantial gun even though made for the masses. I don't know about others but mine is Belgian proofed.
Mark

pilot · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2021, 11:36:28 PM »

Is there any way to figure out how old this thing is?

rich pierce · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2021, 12:47:55 AM »

1850s plus or minus is my guess.

Levy · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2021, 07:17:53 AM »

I think the unreadable mark is B P for Birmingham Proof and obviously the 12 is the bore size. James Levy

Seth Isaacson · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2021, 05:23:07 PM »

Quote from: pilot on February 06, 2021, 09:06:24 PM

Here is the bottom of the barrels. I can't make out what the proof mark is, but it doesn't look like the British mark.

Those are Birmingham proofs from c. 1855-1875.

pilot · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2021, 06:20:54 PM »

Cool! Thank you. I couldn't figure out what it was. I knew the 12 was for the bore, but the rest was a mystery.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2021, 07:04:29 PM »

Seth,
Can you attach photos of the proof marks that are like these?
My own books just show the normal 1813 to 1904 marks , and should also have the appropriate view mark.

Afraid I can not make out the marks in the photos in this thread.
One mark looks hazily like the Special Definitive Proof marks used between 1887 and 1925, but of course that can't be the case.

pilot · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2021, 07:06:51 PM »

I'll take some better pictures, too. BRB

Shopdog · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2021, 07:30:27 PM »

I have a Westley Richards double from the 1840s - heavily used and worn but mechanically sound. Years back I contacted the company in Great Britain and they were actually able to give me a ballpark figure on the age of the gun based on the marks and serial number. Here's a link to their website:
https://www.westleyrichards.com/new-guns/history/
There were lots of Belgian knock-offs but yours is clearly a British made gun. I'm not sure if there were British knock-offs of W. Richards shotguns as well but I'll leave that to the experts. Everything I see looks like it's a true Westley Richards. Today they still make super fine and $$$$ double guns but back in the 19th century they produced a wide variety of "grades" . What I love about mine is the quality and feel of the locks.
Cheers,
Joe

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2021, 07:52:03 PM »

Shopdog,
Yes many Birmingham knock-offs as well as Belgian.
Names sometimes spelled Close, but not touching! Mortimer had lots of also -rans...and Manton!
I recall looking at a gun supposedly by a British maker, and it was Horrendous!, and was sure it was a bottom of the barrel Belgian job, I would have bet my life on it, But, when I pulled the barrels it had Birmingham proofs.
Not saying the opening post gun is that bad, merely making the point that lesser and spurious stuff also came out of England.

Edited to say my Bro-in -Law had a Westley Richads I gave him. I should see if my sister can find it for photos... It was the real deal.

Shopdog · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2021, 08:24:09 PM »

Pretty interesting that there were British knockoffs of British guns - Some things never change! Your info got me to compare with the shotgun in the post. Instead of “W. Richards” my shotgun says “Westley Richards” - also has a serial number. The company was able to look it up and placed it first half of 1840’s - in typical British fashion their archivist apologized they couldnt get more details as the records were incomplete! I was amazed and happy just to get the response from them and to know the gun dated to the 1840’s.
Joe

pilot · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2021, 08:47:21 PM »

I have not found a serial number, but have found some interesting etching on the top rib.

pilot · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2021, 08:48:33 PM »

The barrels are 36 inches long and the gun weighs 9 pounds, 15 ounces.

Shopdog · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2021, 09:21:05 PM »

Regardless of pedigree looks to be a fine serviceable shotgun. There’s something special about wingshooting with old doubles,

T*O*F · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2021, 10:05:05 PM »

Quote from: pilot on February 09, 2021, 08:47:21 PM

I have not found a serial number, but have found some interesting etching on the top rib.

That's not etching, it's inlay. You can see on the gun barrel of the figure and along the bottom of the design where some of it has been lost. Also, there are 2 different color barrel bands. Most likely the center one is gold and the outers are platinum. At today's prices, they probably exceed the value of the gun. This is not a cheap knock-off, if there even were any.

Daryl · « **Reply #24 on:** February 09, 2021, 10:34:29 PM »

I have to agree with Dave on this gun. It does appear to be the real McCoy.
The engraving London Fine Twist is much finer and shaped properly to be Belgium made.
It is virtually identical to my Field, London gun's marking.

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Author Topic: W. Richards double percussion shotgun (Read 6577 times)