Author Topic: Patch Lube Recipes  (Read 43062 times)

Harnic

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2008, 06:30:13 PM »
Water type could play a role BB.  The water here is quite hard while the water where I lived at the coast 30 years ago was soft.  I remember barrels being a lot easier to clean back then!

Daryl

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2008, 08:13:37 PM »
Taylor, Ross, Crispy, Roy and I take the barrels off to clean. One patch is all that's needed to pump water in and out of the vent or nipple seat. Even when using Track's brass thingie attached to the vent, the cleaning is always the same - one ot clean, then 3 or 4 to dry using cold water - comes out spottless.  Spray WD 40 in till it runs out the vent, then one patch to distribute and spray excess out the vent - say scenario every time. I have a pile of the same patches I've used many times.  Between cleannings, they dry out and are re-useable. I use diaper meterial, denim or ordinary worn out flanel sheets, it all works the same. Sometimes you have to double it, sometimes not - dpeends ont he jag used. I use the same jab for the .40 as the .45.  With the .40, nonthing needs to be doubled, but with the .45, the way undersize jag needs doubles everything but heavy denim.
: I have no idea where all your fouling is coming from, Harry - none of us have that problem here with the shooting regime we use. BP only. No wiping.  Spit, LHV or Hoppe's+, same deal - no buildup in the grouves.  Maybe you need to address your patch thickness? With a ball .005" under, I'm using a .019" denim (8 pound) for cool weather and a .0215" denim for hot weather as I've found in really hot weather the thinner, looser fitting denim will sometimes fail.  This happened in both the .45 and the .69 - haven't experienced this with the .40 as I automatically use heavier patches in hot weather.  Taylor tried the .019" denim in his .50, with a .495" ball that actually measures .497". He also had a range rod so he wouldn't have to remover and replace his ramrod each shot. The 3/8" steel rod practically seated the ball by it's weight alone. His .50 has deeper grooves than my barrels as it's a Rice. .016" I believe.  The patches maintained their integrity in moderate temps, but a heavier patch should be used at Hefley. We'll be going out tomorrow for more testing, getting ready to shoot our Chunk match.
:  I use the same 8 pound Denim (.019") for the .400" ball as well. With a gross diameter around the ball of .438", it has .016 compression in the .422" groove diameter. This seals no matter the temp, yet is easy to load if you aren't too limp wristed.  No, I don't use or need a mallet.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2008, 08:29:49 PM »
Re: the comment about using Pyrodex- in my experience, if you want trouble cleaning a barrel, just switch to Pyrodex. You can get your barrel clean today, go back tomorrow,get a dirty patch, then the next day , etc. Black powder is the easiest powder to clean up after. Easier than my 22-250, or other smokeless powder guns too.

northmn

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2008, 10:07:30 PM »
Kind of disappointed in this thread as I was expecting to read all sorts of alchemy as to what makes them shoot.  Beeswax based lubes were common for bullets, as was sperm whale oil (bet that would be a little hard to try) .   Reading about lubes used to be like reading favorite recipes for cooking.  Lubes for targets should have  a cleaning effect so that one can shoot a few shots without wiping.  For hunting loads you need one that don't evaporate so that the patch don't catch fire and retain its integrity when shot.  For hunting unless you have a lot of game to shoot at about any tallow should work.  For cold weather shotgunning they used to recommend adding alcohol or antifreeze to the water for the cushion wads for their cleaning effect. 

DP

BrownBear

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2008, 11:36:12 PM »
Thanks for those details Northmn.  They're useful for my skull scratching.   I know of a couple of folks here in Alaska with very old containers of sperm whale oil, so I might be able to snag a small sample just cuzz.  Same for oil from bowhead and beluga whales.  Even seal oil, come to think of it.

I was pretty disappointed too.  Lots of remarks on commercial products but little on recipes, per the request.  There's lots of discussions of homebuilding recipes on other sites though.  If you want to pursue them, message me and I'll give you some links.

Edd

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2008, 11:54:02 PM »
Once more with feeling... Let's see where were we?? I've used the Hoppes #9 Plus enough to like it rather much during lower humidity days. And then there is that blend of 30% scented beeswax and 70% Crisco that works nicely for a patch lube too,  in some of my guns.

Course I shot some of the best targets, in a recent match, that I have ever shot with any gun in my life. Costly shooting that stuff though!! The company calls themselves Eastern Maine. Their factory patch was blessed with their secret lube, on an .018 patch, wrapped around a .400 ball.  Sho' did shoot mighty fine...

Edd

Harnic

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2008, 01:37:22 AM »

: I have no idea where all your fouling is coming from, Harry - none of us have that problem here with the shooting regime we use.


I'm just lucky I guess Daryl.  IF I shoot at Heffley this year, I'll show you how filthy this bore gets & how much work is involved in getting it clean.  See ya in a couple weeks! :)

northmn

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2008, 03:50:25 PM »
Thanks Brownbear.  I have several recipes in books on BP cartridge guns.  I was always slightly amused at the concoctions.  There is some indication that plain water does not work too bad on targets.  I ran into one gentleman at out local shooting range with two beautiful Shiloh Sharps.  He insisted that 30 wt motor oil was the only good thing for wiping between shots, which he had to do, and that all other stuff did was rust the bore.  I had a gunsmith tell me that carburetor cleaner would clean out a bore in two wipes.  He really praised the stuff.  I used some in a breech loader and looked at the bore and shot the can and went back to standard cleaning.  Marvel Mystery Oil was praised.  Not by me.   So far the old standbys are still here and being used.  About the only thing that I read of recently that would work for cleaning was by Matthews when he mentioned adding antifreeze to water as it contains anti-corrosion additives.

DP

Daryl

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2008, 05:13:40 PM »
A lot of modern shooters use carb cleaner in their bores - I'm talking about the modern BR shooters of the 1970's and 80's.  It is not a BP friendly product, along with any other petrolium, except for vaseline IF it is mixed with beeswax.  Other oils work well to with beeswax, ie: olive oil or neetsfood oil, but hese are bulelt lubes designed to allow repeated shots with lubed or PP bullets without having to wipe the bore.
; For patches, the best I've found so far, that shoot in all my barrels are spit, LHV and Hoppe's #9 PLUS.  One gun, the .69 allows a wider range of lubes and even shoots baby-oil lubed as well as Mink-oil lubed loads equally well with anything else.  I attribute this to the larger bore being easier to get to shoot than a small bore.  The same goes for smoothbores where the larger the bore, the easier they are to get to shoot - IF you can handle the recoil, that is.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2008, 05:50:44 PM »
Just a couple of random observations:

Oils or greases are not water soluble.  Plain water will not dissolve them during cleaning, hence you must use a soap, solvent, or heat.  This is one reason why so many concoctions use Murphy's, LHV, antifreeze, or water soluble oil for water clean-up.

If you use an oil or grease based lube, use the waterless cleaning method.  Many use only Break-Free and patches to clean their bores. Or some use Go-Jo hand cleaner.

All of today's powders are glazed with graphite.  What many of you think is fouling, is really the graphite residue.  It's inert and harmless.  Contrary to popular opinion of the Adrianne Monk type individuals, your bore does not have to be spotless and it won't rust.  On the other hand, a perfectly spotless bore will encourage oxidation.

Your cleaning method depends entirely on the composition of your patch lube.
Dave Kanger

A dedicated person with just a pocketknife can accomplish more than a lazy person with an entire toolbox.

Harnic

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2008, 07:11:28 PM »
Good point TOF!  I hadn't thought of the graphite component.  That could well be a large part of what collects in the grooves as it doesn't burn & also isn't water soluble.  That also would be why the black residue I find after cleaning & rinsing comes out easily with WD-40 while soapy water wouldn't touch it.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 07:11:54 PM by Harnic »

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2008, 01:13:59 AM »
I have tried beeswax and olive oil as a patch lube and it was ok, but nothing spectacular. Does seem to work well as a leather dressing so all is not lost. Now I have pretty much settled on Ballistoil mixed with water. I use windshield washer fluid for a cleaner and it requires only three or four patches, including the last one saturated with Break Free CLP, but that is in round grooved rifling.

Your milage may vary.

roundball

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2008, 03:28:17 AM »
FWIW, long time habits that work perfectly die hard, even knowing there are other proven ways to do things...all I've ever used is a big 5 gallon bucket of steaming hot water & dishwashing detergent...and every cleaning session includes a couple dozen strokes with a bronze bore brush before final patching.

Years ago I clean until patches came back out snowy white...then one time for some reason I ran a bore brush up and down after I thought the bore was clean...the next couple of patches came out "black"...ever since then I never consider a bore clean until the patches are white AFTER a good brushing.

40Haines

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2008, 01:48:46 AM »
"I have read and heard about folks cleaning up their guns with only two, three, maybe four patches.  However, in an effort to really clean my barrels, I've always needed about ten diaper patches or more... "



I have been reading about this one patch thing for a while now.

Sorry guys I will have to see it to believe it.

10-12 Patches here easy.

With any of the lubes mentioned.

roundball

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2008, 03:44:09 AM »
Sorry guys I will have to see it to believe it.

Here's one easy, certain way you can that with 3 patches:

- Use a proper fitting PRB combination for the caliber bore you're using;
- Use Goex 3F powder
- Use liberal amounts of Hoppes #9 PLUS BP Solvent & Patch Lube;
- Shoot 50 shots at the range any time of year without wiping between shots;
- Get home and soak the bore in steaming hot soapy water while cleaning the lock;
- Pump flush the bore with the 1st patch;
- Make a couple dozen strokes with a bronze bore brush;
- Pump flush the bore with a 2nd patch;
- Rinse & pump flush the bore with a 3rd patch using steaming hot clean water;

 ;)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 03:50:00 AM by roundball »

Leatherbelly

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2008, 04:34:03 AM »
RB,
 I agree with everything you're doing except the steaming hot water.A good friend passed on used  this same method. His long time friend and builder of this beautiful Peter Berry is still pulling rust out of a .40 Getz barrel. A real shame,and all due to old Pete's cleaning with steaming hot water. Rb,if you are using a water soluble patch lube,just give cold water a try.I think you will be pleasantly surprised! Very little risk of flash rusting. You can add the dish soap,but I don't think you need it. When I think my bore is dry,I librally shoot it down with WD40 till it runs out the vent.Then with a dry patch,I pump out the WD40 with a few strokes. One more patch to go at this point. Then I run a dry patch thru and put her away. 8) I have never shown a speck of rust in my guns,nor have I had any build up on their breechplugs. Nope,nine,nyet!

roundball

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2008, 05:41:53 AM »
Not a spec of rust in mine either in 18 years now.....note, you can't wait around to dry them though or you can get what is called flash rust, but even that just wipes right out...patch dry them quickly, then let the residual heat do its thing, then a couple of trips with a sloppy wet WD40 patch  ;)

Daryl

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2008, 06:01:46 PM »
I think a lot of guys who need a LOT patches to clean their rifles, aren't taking the barrels off to clean.  When I did this, as in after a mere 20 shots on a Hefley trail, the patch count went up to about 2, sometimes 3 for cleaning, 4 for drying and 1 for oiling after WD40 40 spraying down the tube.  When cleaning on the rifle, I plug the vent with a round tooth pick, then fill the tube with cold water.  I let this soak for 15 min or more, then pull the plug and let the $#@* run out the vent- black as can be for just a split second, then the rest runs out clean.  I then run a dry patch into it to the plug, then another. If that one isn't quite clean, I'll do a third. It usually comes out clean. Then I spray in the DW 40 till it runs out the vent, then another dry patch into the bore to soak up some oil and spread it around and blast the excess out the vent.  I wad up a paper towel in the lock mortise to protect the wood while draining the barrel and when oiling.  To clean the lock at Hefley, I remove it form the gun, splash water on it, scrub with someone Else's tooth brush, splash more water on it to rinse, then shake it dry, spray with WD40 till it litterally runs off into the fire pit, shake the lock, wipe it dry, then reinstall it when the bore is clean.  This all takes about 10 minutes - except for the wait while it's soaking. That is the time for soaking a dry throat, and that cometimes takes longer than 15 minutes, but no longer than 30.  So far I've rusted neither the .40 nor the .45 doing this.  They clean like a polished mirror inside, one with rifling, of course.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 06:02:31 PM by Daryl »

roundball

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2008, 06:36:52 PM »
"...scrub with someone Else's tooth brush..."

 ;D

Harnic

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2008, 06:41:45 PM »
AHA!  So that's why my toothbrush tasted weird last year!  >:(

Offline wvmtnman

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2008, 09:13:59 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys.  I haven't been able to check back since I posted the question.  My computer had a nasty virus.  I'm not sure where I got it from but I was only here and a couple other ML sites the days things started to go funky.  I will try the recipes I got.
I hunt with my rifles and I have always been a believer in target shooting with the same load you intend on hunting with.  I know I may burn a little extra powder and spend a little more on lube but it is only a .36 caliber. 
I use pillow ticking for patch material.  Would I be able to dip the strips of ticking in the lube mixture while it is still in the liquid form?  or is it better to rub the solid into the material? 
                                                                                Thanks, Brian
B. Lakatos

BrownBear

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2008, 09:31:23 PM »
I tried it with my various tallow/olive oil concoctions, and for my tastes it overlubed the patching.  It didn't really work any better or worse than a thinner layer smeared on just before shooting, but man.  It seemed to get all over everything when I was using the dipped patching.  On seating the ball, lots of excess lube squeegeed out on the muzzle.  I tried dipping precut patches too, with much the same results.

Except on the range I do most of my shooting using loading blocks.  Keeping the excess lube contained in the field isn't such an issue then.  Of course you've got some cleanup to do on the blocks when you load them at home.

mykeal

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2008, 01:22:05 AM »
First post on this board:

I'm confused. The subject of the thread is Patch Lube Recipes. There are 4 pages of posts, most about cleaning after shooting, and only one post containing a patch lube recipe. Unless you count praises for a commercial product. Did I miss something?

My preference for PATCH LUBE isn't really a recipe. I use Ballistol thinned with plain water, varying from 5 parts water to 1 part Ballistol to 7 parts water to 1 part Ballistol. The ratio varies based on the gun. I lay the patches out on a sheet pan, soak them in the mixture, then remove them to a dry pan to dry out. This is usually done with a strip of ticking or drill, but sometimes I use precut patches, again depending on the gun. The dried patch material is stored in a medicine prescription bottle or ziplock bag.

I'll save my cleaning regimen for a thread on that topic, in case anyone asks.

Daryl

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2008, 01:37:02 AM »
Sorry - most of the guys posting have run the gammut of various patch lubes in the last couple years, at the old ALR site.  We, in our old age get sidetracked easily, it seems.
:  I do recall some preferring spit, LehighValley Lube and Hoppe's which seem the best so far for allowing unlimited shooting without having to wipe in this rather stretched out thread.

roundball

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Re: Patch Lube Recipes
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2008, 02:06:04 AM »
Nothing to be sorry about at all...the interrelationships between lubes/bore conditions/cleaning, etc are very close and commonly bleed across that blurry line...that's why nobody ever complains
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 03:30:09 AM by roundball »