Author Topic: Goex vs Swiss ? (Read 4112 times)

Nessmuck · « **on:** February 13, 2021, 09:50:37 PM »

Iam sure this have been beaten to death.....but going to order some powder....and only used goex. So my question ...should I spend the extra for the Swiss ? Will it make me win all the shooting matches...lol...thanks for any input

smylee grouch · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2021, 09:54:36 PM »

Only you will be able to determine that by testing loads with both in your rifle.

Bob McBride · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2021, 10:16:54 PM »

Swiss is a bit hotter but both are great.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2021, 10:34:39 PM »

Question, is to US muzzleloading team beating down your door to get you to join? No! Buy Goex, and good whiskey with the change.

Hungry Horse

Tony N · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2021, 10:58:36 PM »

Quote from: Hungry Horse on February 13, 2021, 10:34:39 PM

Question, is to US muzzleloading team beating down your door to get you to join? No! Buy Goex, and good whiskey with the change.

Hungry Horse

Now there’s a thinking man!

Tony

snapper · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2021, 11:01:45 PM »

I might be beating on his door to join. You have a long range ML? Any good with it? If not you should get one. Always looking for new good shooters.

I like Goex because it is made in the USA, and it is a very good powder, no doubt about it.

I do all of my long range competing with Swiss. I have not head to head tested Swiss against Goex, so I cant say that I get X better groups with Swiss. Others have done head to head testing and posted there results all over the web.

I know that with Swiss I get very good accuracy with it.

For International shooting you will not get Goex you will get Swiss if you go to a match outside of the USA. That also plays into what I use for a load.

I know that Swiss cost more, but not enough to make a difference for me. Powder is the cheap part of the sport compared to guns, traveling, hotels etc.

Art Fleener
Capitan United States International Long Range Muzzle Loading Team

MuskratMike · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2021, 11:11:55 PM »

GOEX, end of discussion. I use 3F in everything from .32 to .54 and 4F to prime the pan.

okawbow · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2021, 11:16:42 PM »

Most of the top shooters and winners seem to use Swiss. I find it tightens my groups by about 10% over other powders. That said; I think you probably need to be a top tier shooter to see any difference. The Swiss is not worth the extra money for 95% of shooters.

Bob McBride · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2021, 11:25:02 PM »

I like Gruyere in my quiche, so I go for Swiss.

Rifleman1776 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2021, 11:28:28 PM »

Cannot explain why, just my experience. For me, Goex and Schutzen give identical results. For me, Swiss just doesn't want to group well. Tis a puzzlement and I have a lot of Swiss on hand.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2021, 11:42:20 PM »

There can be as much as 200 or more feet per sec difference between Swiss and goes equal loads there for you should work up individual loads for each powder to find the optimal load for each.

hanshi · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2021, 11:47:28 PM »

More costly doesn't always translate to "more better". I have used only Goex products since my Dupont and Elephant days. If Swiss would give me finer accuracy I'd not ever be able to tell, I can't shoot that well. Cost is the main concern for me. I don't compete, just hunt and shoot.

utseabee · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2021, 01:55:12 AM »

Try them both and see what works better in your rifle. I end up shooting 15 grains less of Swiss in my .58 than I do Goex for the same point of impact, so I don't think the extra cost per pound makes much difference. Cost per shot is probably about the same, but I never really calculated it. I use both as some of my rifles prefer the Swiss and others Goex. Swiss seems to be a little cleaner. The only way you will know is to try it it.

Daryl · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2021, 04:36:45 AM »

The Swiss 1 1/2F powder I bought, was double what I paid for the last GOEX 2F and 3F I bought.
Swiss 1 1/2F gave less vel. in the rifle I tested it against GOEX 3F. The accuracy was the same. I used
the same volume of powder, but the Swiss weighed 8 grains more.

Had I tested the same weight of 1 1/2F Swiss and the 3F GOEX, there would have been even more spread
in velocity with GOEX way ahead. As it was, there was 60fps difference in speed between the two - per volume.
The accuracy was also the same.

Now, Swiss 2F or 3F could very well have given higher speeds and better accuracy, but I did not have
it for testing. Thus, I prefer GOEX in all, whether 2F or 3F for main charges and 4F for prime. I would like
to have some Nul B for prime, but I don't have any - I have 4F GOEX and it works just fine - for now.

Ghillie · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2021, 05:00:51 AM »

I started black powder cartridge shooting @20 years ago. At that time Swiss was the preferred powder with shooters. I tried GOEX Express and got good results. They stopped producing it. I then went to GOEX Old 'E' and found it to be equal to Swiss. In fact I preferred it because it had softer fouling and was easier to clean. When I loaded equal weights of traditional GOEX, Old 'E' and Swiss my points of impact stayed the same on targets from 200-500 meters. Old 'E' was $9.00 a pound cheaper so I stayed with it. When equal weights of powder was shot across a chronograph there was only about 10 FPS difference so a savings of over $100 per case of powder was significant to my pocket book. When shot in my flintlocks, similar results were found.

recurve · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2021, 05:58:55 PM »

Use what YOU

want, for me I get better groups with swiss

(with less fauling) and seems to be more constant lot to lot can to can

. For the time being it's still a free country(THAT

might be changing

)

moleeyes36 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2021, 05:59:51 PM »

Quote from: utseabee on February 14, 2021, 01:55:12 AM

Try them both and see what works better in your rifle. I end up shooting 15 grains less of Swiss in my .58 than I do Goex for the same point of impact, so I don't think the extra cost per pound makes much difference. Cost per shot is probably about the same, but I never really calculated it. I use both as some of my rifles prefer the Swiss and others Goex. Swiss seems to be a little cleaner. The only way you will know is to try it it.

This subject is beating a dead horse just like the "what's the best patch lube" discussion. It's all just a personal preference when people swear by one powder or another for whatever reason. What is gold to one person is trash to another. Who is right and who is wrong will never be finally put to bed.

Utseabee sums it up exactly right. Try them both and see what works better in your rifle...The only way you will know is to try it. After you've done that make up your own mind and disregard others' opinions.

Don Richards

Semisane · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2021, 07:26:44 PM »

Here's a study I did a few years ago. Draw your own conclusions. .

Candle Snuffer · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2021, 08:32:01 PM »

I personally like the Goex and will not change for a couple reasons.

1. I like it, and I get good accuracy from it.
2. I do not want to go through load development (nor potential sight adjustment) by switching powder...

Goex has treated me just A-O-K over the years, and I see no reason to switch...

Bassdog1 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2021, 03:08:17 AM »

I have shot and have on hand Goex 3F, Olde E 3F and standard Goex 3F. I have been able to get very good groups from all of my guns using each powder after lots of load development. However for the tightest groups I shoot I have one 36 that absolutely shoots Swiss 3F better than the others. My main shooting is for small game so I usually shoot Olde E and Regular Goex as most of that is done with a 32 that is a tack driver with 15 grains of either.

Mike from OK · « **Reply #20 on:** February 16, 2021, 09:50:35 AM »

Nessy if you're ordering from a place that lets you mix and match get a pound or two of Swiss and try it out... Even better, try a pound or two of Goex Olde Eynesford as well.

Mike

Daryl · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2021, 12:37:16 AM »

Semisane - interesting test you made, and obviously, the slower powder was better. I would expect due to the 30" rate
of twist, a shorter, lighter weight bullet might have done better, and indeed, perhaps a slower powder as well, as in 1FG
could be tried, even with that heavy-for-twist bullet. I would think for a 30" twist, a 270gr. to 300gr. bullet might be much
better. Of course, loading the shorter bullet straight, might be a problem.

Candle Snuffer · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2021, 04:30:53 AM »

I will mention that many years back I purchased some 1fg Meteor Powder at State Shoot... The feller selling it had it on hand since 1970 or '70 something? Anyway, for $6.00 a pound I was willing to take a chance on it. The story of how Meteor Black Powder came about is to long to repeat here, so if you want to know - just google it... (It hasn't been made for a very long time)...

Anyway, although it's 1fg, I have found it to be a reliable powder in both "small - medium - and large bore rifles & smoothie (.40 to .54 & 20ga), both flint and percussion, (using 4fg Goex to set off the charges in the flintlocks).

Now this really has nothing to do with the topic here, as it's no longer made, and hasn't been for some time - but I have to say that my take on it is that it has made a good "fun" powder to use for plinking gongs - and it saves on my Goex Powder, which in itself is a big plus.

Just thought I'd mention this in case you ever come across any of it... He only had the 1fg available - and at $6.00 a pound I wasn't going to pass on it - I was willing to take a chance on it.

Here's an offhand group I shot using my .45 Dickert style (caplock) rifle from 40 yards; I was pleased with it.

My apologies, I originally said I shot this target above with my flintlock - it was my "caplock"... Sorry about that.

Daryl · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2021, 04:44:55 AM »

In the later 70's Meteor powder, MFG'r in Scotland (marked on the cans) was one of few powders commonly available to us at that time, on a spotty basis.
I shot a lot of it in 2F persuasion in my .58, and Bauska barrels I put onto my TC Hawkens, along with the odd can of Dupont that showed up from time to time,
and Gerheat Owen's(which became GOEX, I think) & Heartless and Scurvey. We first bought Curtis and Harvey's from the Don Point's hardware store in Dorchester
Ont, for something like 98 cents per pound - early 1960's, maybe. Anyway I thought it was good powder until I got Lyman's BP Handbook in about 1973 or 74. I already
had Ned's big book by that time. Wow - seems a long time ago, yet it's only 46 or so years.

Candle Snuffer · « **Reply #24 on:** February 21, 2021, 04:56:56 AM »

Quote from: Daryl on February 21, 2021, 04:44:55 AM

In the later 70's Meteor powder, MFG'r in Scotland (marked on the cans) was one of few powders commonly available to us at that time, on a spotty basis.
I shot a lot of it in 2F persuasion in my .58, and Bauska barrels I put onto my TC Hawkens, along with the odd can of Dupont that showed up from time to time,
and Gerheat Owen's(which became GOEX, I think) & Heartless and Scurvey. We first bought Curtis and Harvey's from the Don Point's hardware store in Dorchester
Ont, for something like 98 cents per pound - early 1960's, maybe. Anyway I thought it was good powder until I got Lyman's BP Handbook in about 1973 or 74. I already
had Ned's big book by that time. Wow - seems a long time ago, yet it's only 46 or so years.

If I recall the story correctly, I recall one of the "powder" plants had an accident and the USA had to import some powder as the NMLRA National Shoot was coming up, and they needed to have powder on hand... I'm pretty sure they imported all four "F" grades, and the plant eventually got reopened.

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Author Topic: Goex vs Swiss ? (Read 4112 times)