Author Topic: Another old horn  (Read 1464 times)

Online rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19147
Another old horn
« on: March 02, 2021, 09:43:03 PM »
I’ve started a “big old plain horn” collection and this doesn’t quite fit, but I like it. The scratching appears to have been added while the horn was in use. The “A” is of an early form but the rest does not seem to pre-date 1800 to me. The plug is right at 3” across snd may be turned. It had some reddish paint on it at some point. Just a good carrying horn. Any impressions?








Andover, Vermont

Offline vanu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: Another old horn
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2021, 03:07:43 AM »
A nice old horn!

Offline G. Elsenbeck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1226
Re: Another old horn
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2021, 05:40:02 PM »
Nothing not to like Rich, beautiful lines, as in curve, and nicely executed carving for the spout.   Great find and thanks for sharing.
Journeyman in the Honourable Company of Horners (HCH) and a member in the Contemporary Longrifle Association (CLA)

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

Offline Kevin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Another old horn
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2021, 10:46:31 PM »
Rich,

Thanks for sharing the photos of this horn.  I like the profile of the base plug.  Might have to make use of that some time on a future horn project.

Kevin

Offline mr. no gold

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2654
Re: Another old horn
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2021, 01:25:00 AM »
Rich, very nice old horn! The 'A' with the bent cross stroke is common to the 1700s and the 'cross of Lorraine' is too. Nice find and thank you bringing it in for us to see.
Dick

Offline Notchy Bob

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Another old horn
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2021, 01:49:12 AM »
Thanks for showing it, Rich!  That's a fine old horn!  I like everything about it.

I can't comment on a date of manufacture or use, but will defer to the experts.  However, I did just recently find an image of a cross just like that carved in a gunstock:



Here is the whole rifle, for comparison:



This is on the Heritage Auctions website.  They describe it as a Civil War era "Austrian musket" (I think a Lorenz) which "found its way into Indian hands."  They describe the cross as a "four directions symbol."  I'll take their word for it, I guess, although they don't divulge any information regarding provenance or chain of ownership.

I was curious, and looked up more information on cross imagery.  A Cross of Loraine is like a typical Christian cross, but with two horizontal bars which typically, but not always, show the upper horizontal bar shorter than the one below it.  A Greek cross is exactly like a "plus" symbol (+), with fours straight arms of equal length.  The cross on your horn, and on the Austrian musket, with those flared ends on all four arms, is more like the Cross of the Order of Christ, associated with the Knights Templar:



...although this cross, as shown, generally has an outline in one color, and a central cross in a contrasting color.  It is similar in some respects to the Cross of St. John:



...except that the crosses depicted on your horn and on the gun have arms of equal length, and the lower leg of the Cross of St. John is longer than the other three.

So, I don't know what to make of that cross.  It may have associations with the Knights Templar, or it might symbolize the four directions or the four "winds," or it might have been just that a country boy in possession of your horn inscribed his initials in the horn, decided he needed to fill the space between them, and put in a cross that he thought looked cool.  e also wonder why the initials and cross were scratched onto the underside of the horn, where they don't really show when the horn is suspended.

Who knows?  It's fun to speculate.  In any event, you have a really nice old horn in great shape.  It's a beauty.

Notchy Bob
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 05:08:34 AM by Notchy Bob »
"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us.  Should have rode horses.  Kept dogs."

from The Antelope Wife

Offline mr. no gold

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2654
Re: Another old horn
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2021, 10:39:11 AM »
Yes Bob, I called it wrong on the cross; it is a Templar cross. Don't know where my mind was when I typed in my post. For the Indians the cross in many instances represent the four directions and the bent arm cross to the Diene/Navajo represent whirling logs and also the four directions. The cross of Lorraine has much in common with the Eastern Rite cross which has a straight cross bar at the top and below that a slanted/diagonal bar; in other words, it too has two cross bars. The cross on the horn is most likely an ornament to separate the two initials incised into the horn. Hard to interpret some of the intentions of long ago artisans. Thanks guys!
Dick