Author Topic: Grease Tins  (Read 2675 times)

Offline Panzerschwein

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Grease Tins
« on: March 08, 2021, 11:07:28 AM »
I am trying to find a method of carrying greased patching and pre-greased tow for the purposes of protecting the bore and metal in the field, but in a period way.

I know Track sells a 3"x4" (or so) tinder box supposedly based on an original, but it's kind of big and I own one and it takes up a lot of area in my bag.

My question is did smaller tins, something like a medicine box or snuff box etc. exist in them days and if so, any craftsman making historically accurate copies today? Desiring something quite small, say 2"x2" or around that size. Can't do a cap tin as I'm wanting to stay early 19th.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 12:05:09 PM by Panzerschwein »

Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Journeyman in the Honourable Company of Horners (HCH) and a member in the Contemporary Longrifle Association (CLA)

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Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Offline Greg Pennell

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2021, 04:00:29 AM »
Maybe these at Samson Historical can be of use.

https://www.samsonhistorical.com/products/empty-tins

Greg
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline heinz

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2021, 06:12:37 AM »
ArmoredPig.  I would suggest tubes with corks, made of cane , bamboo, or soldered-up sheet metal. A small round wooden container with a fitted cap would also work.  Hydraulicly formed cans with close fitting lids are really not found much in your time period.
kind regards, heinz

Offline Panzerschwein

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2021, 11:53:09 AM »
ArmoredPig.  I would suggest tubes with corks, made of cane , bamboo, or soldered-up sheet metal. A small round wooden container with a fitted cap would also work.  Hydraulicly formed cans with close fitting lids are really not found much in your time period.

Thanks! I am only going to use something with a historical proven basis so are there any surviving such containers or primary documentation on such things?

Offline JohnnyFM

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2021, 12:52:07 PM »
I’m no “small tin expert”, but based on my own casual research over the years, what might foot the bill for your use is what they called in the 17th thru 18th centuries a “patch box”.
It’s not what one might think, being rifle gunne shooters like we are, but a small round container that held cosmetic “patches or “spots” used by both men and women to apply to one’s cheeks (or in the case of women exclusively—to her bosoms) supposed to enhance one’s attractiveness and/or youth.
These patch boxes look very similar, in size and shape, to 19th century cap boxes.
However I have not found any examples made with tinplate.  I’m not stating they didn’t exist, but I have not seen any documentation or surviving examples made of tin.
There are original examples made of silver, copper and brass, or combinations of the latter.
It is well documented that people of the time repurposed containers for other use, I.e. I recall a “lost and found” advertisement for a found mourning ring in a snuff box and anyone claiming to be the owner would have to identify the touchmarks on the box plus fee for printing costs, etc.
While patches and spots fell out of favor toward the end of the 18th century, especially with the growing middle class, the boxes continued to be produced/reused.
Goose Bay workshops (Peter Goebbel) makes these types of boxes, though he just calls them “tiny boxes” or some such.
http://www.goosebay-workshops.com/Boxes-Barrels-and-Containers

Regards
Johnny

Offline Panzerschwein

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2021, 02:40:08 PM »
I’m no “small tin expert”, but based on my own casual research over the years, what might foot the bill for your use is what they called in the 17th thru 18th centuries a “patch box”.
It’s not what one might think, being rifle gunne shooters like we are, but a small round container that held cosmetic “patches or “spots” used by both men and women to apply to one’s cheeks (or in the case of women exclusively—to her bosoms) supposed to enhance one’s attractiveness and/or youth.
These patch boxes look very similar, in size and shape, to 19th century cap boxes.
However I have not found any examples made with tinplate.  I’m not stating they didn’t exist, but I have not seen any documentation or surviving examples made of tin.
There are original examples made of silver, copper and brass, or combinations of the latter.
It is well documented that people of the time repurposed containers for other use, I.e. I recall a “lost and found” advertisement for a found mourning ring in a snuff box and anyone claiming to be the owner would have to identify the touchmarks on the box plus fee for printing costs, etc.
While patches and spots fell out of favor toward the end of the 18th century, especially with the growing middle class, the boxes continued to be produced/reused.
Goose Bay workshops (Peter Goebbel) makes these types of boxes, though he just calls them “tiny boxes” or some such.
http://www.goosebay-workshops.com/Boxes-Barrels-and-Containers

Regards
Johnny

Thank you Johnny, that sounds perfect. It is going to go with the set I’m making for my Lehigh Schimmel which I’ve got on order from Allen Martin.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 03:54:29 PM by Panzerschwein »

Offline heinz

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2021, 08:47:30 PM »
ArmoredPig.  I would suggest tubes with corks, made of cane , bamboo, or soldered-up sheet metal. A small round wooden container with a fitted cap would also work.  Hydraulicly formed cans with close fitting lids are really not found much in your time period.

Thanks! I am only going to use something with a historical proven basis so are there any surviving such containers or primary documentation on such things?


Yes, many examples exist.  Go do your homework
kind regards, heinz

Offline Panzerschwein

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2021, 09:57:33 PM »
I have spoken with Peter Goebbel and am ordering one of his “tiny boxes”. It seems a quaint and delightful little work, and his dimensions make it spot on to fit a stack of greasened patches and a plug of oiled tow for the bore and lock. He handmakes and solders them from brass and copper. I researched tonight and discovered various little containers matching the construction very nicely, such as a Dutch tobacco tin and various cosmetic patch boxes as Johnny educated me on.

Thanks gang! As it’s going with an A. Martin’s rifle, it deserves a great little container!

Offline JohnnyFM

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2021, 10:31:29 PM »
Glad you found your solution and congratulations on your Allen Martin rifle gunne. I assure you it will be worth the wait!
Johnny

Offline Not English

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2021, 10:43:03 PM »
Panzer, I use the small round tins that contain French lemon drops and other hard candies (pastilles). If you can find the La Vosgienne brand, they are what I use. There's no rolled rim/edge on the lid, and are period correct. They are painted. All I do is throw them in the fire to burn the paint off. They turn a nice gray and reddish brown color when cleaned up. I usually use them to hold lube. They also make great tinder boxes. Just drill a hole through rim and the side where they overlap. Rotate the top when making tinder so the holes line up. Rotate the top to close them when done.

Dave

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2021, 11:07:34 PM »
I’ll tell you boys that friction fit lids might work in the summer, but not in the winter if you have any bees wax, or any other ingredients that stiffen up in cold weather. Pre-lubed patches are the best thing in the winter. If you have to use a tin, use an old she polish tin with a lid key.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Not English

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2021, 02:20:18 AM »
Hungry Horse, I've never used beeswax in a patch lube, it seems counter intuitive to  me. In the winter, I use straight bear grease. In the summer, I tend to mix in a little tallow. I've never had a problem, with lids sticking, but I can see how beeswax might contribute to that.

Dave

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2021, 03:45:38 AM »
Maybe a musket cap box would be OK and they are contemporary to our interests here.
Bob Roller

Offline Brokennock

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2021, 02:55:03 PM »
Funny, I've never had trouble with my friction fit tin lids in winter, nor with the little bit of beeswax added to my lube to keep it in place,,,,, but I must be wrong and and having troubles I don't realize I'm having.

Offline Panzerschwein

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2021, 04:36:22 PM »
Maybe a musket cap box would be OK and they are contemporary to our interests here.
Bob Roller

Umm not sure? I was under the impression the Lehigh Schimmels were early 19th?

I think the little box from Pete should work swimmingly. I’ve a small heart-shape bag and would only be using the greased patches for hunting and the greased tow for swiping about the bore whilst cleaning during camping trips etc. I mostly spit patch and will be keeping strips of “piller tickin” in my pouch as well. :)

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2021, 04:52:23 PM »
I’ll tell you boys that friction fit lids might work in the summer, but not in the winter if you have any bees wax, or any other ingredients that stiffen up in cold weather. Pre-lubed patches are the best thing in the winter. If you have to use a tin, use an old she polish tin with a lid key.

  Hungry Horse

I have trouble with any press fit round tins that are not hinged. Percussion cap tins are an abomination to me. I’m going to jump on the shoeshine tin with that lid key suggestion.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Panzerschwein

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2021, 05:16:21 PM »
Here’s a photo of what Pete sent me:



The lip design looks as if it shouldn’t cause any concerns with opening.

Offline heinz

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2021, 05:07:28 AM »
Nice looking box and period correct.
good choice!
kind regards, heinz

Offline Oil Derek

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Re: Grease Tins
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2021, 05:20:19 AM »
Agreed, cool looking box and the right size me thinks.