Author Topic: Sculpting metal  (Read 5511 times)

Offline smart dog

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2021, 06:52:14 PM »
Hi Richard,
Yes, a bolt goes through the wrist and threads into the back of the thumb plate.  Sometimes the head of the bolt also anchors the rear of the trigger plate and in other cases it is underneath the plate or trigger guard.  On Brown Bess muskets, it anchors the trigger guard as well.















I show using a die sinker's chisel on the silver side plate.  I am actually cutting away metal rather than scraping it.  For scraping the concave surfaces, I find spatula shaped dental picks to work well.  I also mount small Dremel style grinding stones in a needle file handle, dip them in parafin oil and use them to shape and polish.








dave
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 06:55:26 PM by smart dog »
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Offline heinz

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2021, 06:55:56 PM »
Smartdog,  what was your casting medium.  I have worked a lot with lost wax and sand but no longer have access to my foundry.  I am interested in different techniques

thanks
kind regards, heinz

Offline helwood

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2021, 08:12:44 PM »
I agree with Dave, I like iron better than low carbon steel.   This was made for my Blunderbuss a couple of years ago it was from 1018.  It worked ok.  I know that my side plate being from sheet wasn't historically correct  but learning how to move and finish metal with these techniques is and that's  what I wanted. 


Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2021, 08:13:45 PM »
Dave, I suspect the real "Smart Dog" did most of that work, but will say that you can carve things on my firearms any old time you want.
You have a good, sure touch putting chisel to metal - I am envious.  Thank you for showing us how it's done.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2021, 02:22:39 AM »



[/quote]
Can't get any better than this. I personally know most of the best engravers in this country and in my opinion, none of them can beat this side plate for sculpting metal. Only a few can equal this.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 02:26:19 AM by jerrywh »
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Offline helwood

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2021, 03:23:15 AM »
Thank you very much Jerry coming from you gives me encouragement  to try new things.  BTW, I  tried something you said at Ron's  Gun Fair.  You gave a talk about the Temperature inside of the Kiln.  And how even though the temperature maybe reading out a temperature that, it may not be uniform from top to bottom,  front to back...  My current project has sculpted Frizzens  so I  made hangers  for the Frizzens.   I like very much how they came out.  Thanks much.    Hank


my computer screen resolution

Offline smart dog

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2021, 04:22:14 AM »
Hi,
Helwood, please don't consider my remarks as criticism.  Your sculpting work is phenomenal.  My point is that the original decorators likely would choose the most efficient manner to achieve the desired end. I get the objective to practice methods and learn.  I am all about that too.  I am just like you in that I am not the least afraid to jump in and have a go at the most difficult and complex decorative work. I applaud everyone who displayed their sculpted work in this thread.  We are carrying on an art form long ago forgotten.

dave 
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2021, 05:55:50 AM »
Dave, thank you for the explanation and the tool tips. Hank, I would love to be able to carve figures and faces like you do.
I use these ceramic stones to finish shaping my Chambers cast steel side plate...







Online smylee grouch

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2021, 05:58:25 AM »
Real nice stuff Helwood, love those locks. What locks are those

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2021, 06:34:01 AM »
Beautiful work, Hank!

Richard, those little ceramic stones are money!  Very useful for cleaning things up!

These are a couple of my efforts in sculpting.  First is a brass side plate that was shaped from sheet.  I used it as a pattern, and cast it.






On the finished piece


This is a thumb piece that was carved, then cast and dressed up with gravers and stones.


On the finished piece

Ed Wenger

Offline helwood

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2021, 07:10:03 AM »
Very nice Ed.  I really enjoy seeing how the art is moving forward.  We aren't  inventing the wheel because we have them to look at but seeing one and knowing how to make one are two different things.   Dave, the Micro Stones are definitely  worth every penny.   Love the thread.   Hope more folks chime in.     Hank

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2021, 02:39:32 PM »
I hope this thread keeps going too with photos, tips and techniques. Ed, beautiful engraving and carving.
Can we see some of the different casting techniques used to reproduce the masters please.
Those ceramic stones are not a cheap date but are great for finishing after using files/rifflers on steel. They can be shaped on a grinding wheel to conform to different shapes. I don’t think they would be good for brass, silver or any soft metals as they would most likely load up. I have not tried them on soft metal so I may be off base on that.
Thanks Richard

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2021, 05:04:18 PM »
Thanks, Hank..., and agree wholeheartedly about the art.  I wish more would try their hand.

Richard, here are some photos of the casting process.  Not the best or most detailed, unfortunately.
I use a homemade cope and drag of 1”x3” material.  You can make them to any size.  I think the ones shown are bigger, used for trigger guards.  Round metal ones, commercially available, are perfect for smaller things like wrist inlays.  Dave has posted nice photos of them.  Anyway, I use petrobond sand for the molding sand, which is very similar (if not nearly identical) to delft clay, but far cheaper. 

This is the drag (bottom), filled with sand, where the master will be slightly pressed into the sand.


Cope and drag with tapered dowel rod used for the sprue.


Cope and drag showing sprue hole where the metal will be poured into.  (I doubt you can see it in this photo, but there’s also several holes punched in the cope, done with 1/8” rod, that come off the mold and act as vents.). I’ve found that it’s easier, and works better to use a “riser” on each end of the mold to facilitate venting and aid metal flow.  These are done the same way as the sprue, but smaller, like 1/4” or so tapered dowel rod.


This is a side plate I formed out of steel.  The cast one I had was just a bit too small for the lock I was using, so this is what I came up with.  The top one is the original.


The ceramic stones work fine on non ferrous metals, but do build up.  Using them in conjunction with a cutting oil solves the problem nicely.  This is a waaaay overdone side plate that was cleaned up with ceramic stones, then engraved.



Meant to add this above..., shows the cast with small vent holes.


Best,
          Ed
Ed Wenger

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2021, 10:54:17 PM »
Ed, I use to do the sand cast stuff but then went to investment wax casting. What sand are you using and are you using talcum powder for parting ? 
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Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2021, 12:14:00 AM »
Jerry..., I’m envious, investment wax casting is awesome.  I just haven’t been able to justify the initial cost with how little I do casting wise.  I use either delft clay or petrobond sand, and yes, talcum powder for parting compound.  Best,

        Ed
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Offline flatsguide

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2021, 05:56:12 PM »
Ed, thanks for exposing how you cast your parts. How do you guys protect the the bore from oxidation scale formation when silver soldering on the barrel?
ThanksRichard

Offline yulzari

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2021, 09:25:22 PM »
This merits saving as a tutorial.

An old trick is to push a piece of potato into the barrel under the place being soldered BTW.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 09:35:03 PM by yulzari »
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Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2021, 09:50:46 PM »
Ed, when you are using those stones to sculpt and polish the metal, do you normally stop with about an 800 or 1200 grit finish?  Your parts have a nice "sheen" to them, without a blinding polished appearance.

I think I stopped at about 1200 when purchasing my stones, but of course mainly use the 200-300 range.  I think I have 3M papers up to 30 to 22,000.  Probably need polarized sunglasses to look at metal polished with the higher grades.

If you hardened the dental scrapers, how did you do it?  Or  did you just make a sharp edge on them?
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2021, 02:27:21 AM »
Craig..., I typically go down to 220, sometimes 320, but nothing finer.  After that, a good scrubbing with a maroon, then gray Scothbrite pad.  I hadn’t thought of the dental scrapers, but that might be worth a try!  Best,


           Ed
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2021, 06:12:01 AM »
Jerry..., I’m envious, investment wax casting is awesome.  I just haven’t been able to justify the initial cost with how little I do casting wise.  I use either delft clay or petrobond sand, and yes, talcum powder for parting compound.  Best,
 Ed

Ed.
When I was doing this I used the petrobond sand.  I sold my sand casting stuff to Dave Race years ago. I spent a few thousand on precision casting equipment but When I cast my parts for my own guns I always made a dozen or so extra parts mostly in silver.
 Then sold the extras, I made almost as much on silver parts as I did on my guns. I sold silver jaeger parts kits for $585.00 a set and pistol sets for about $600. That is when silver was only about $7.00 and ounce. At that time nobody was casting silver parts and To this day I don't think anybody is.
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Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2021, 03:31:21 AM »
Very good point, Jerry!   Best,

       Ed
Ed Wenger

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2021, 05:06:48 AM »
Here is a rib that is obviously not soldered onto the barrel . I did some work on a similar pattern Damascus and found that it cut consistently smooth. Eighteenth century barrels were softer than our modern counterparts.


Offline smart dog

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Re: Sculpting metal
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2021, 02:55:40 PM »
Hi,
Seeing Ron's beautiful example of a sighting rib or plane, I thought I would include these photos showing how I cut a full length sighting plane on a 48" barrel for my Hawk fowler.  I made a barrel float to coarse cut the sides of the plane and then used a bottoming file to clean it up.  It came out very well and did not take very long once I determined my plan.


















dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."