Author Topic: 1750's French Fowler  (Read 5122 times)

Offline Dave B

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1750's French Fowler
« on: September 04, 2009, 03:21:51 AM »
Some of you have requested some additional French Fowler photos so here they are.




















« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 08:12:39 AM by Dave B »
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2009, 04:28:02 AM »
Nice gun with a nifty Spanish barrel. Got any dimensions for us?
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Offline Dave B

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2009, 06:03:21 AM »
I have been trying to get all the dimensions lined out for documentation purposes and will post them once I relocate the drawings I started that have all of them. :-[

Barrel length  = 36 1/4 "
Caliber           = .62 ? there is a slight flair to the muzzle end at .645
Over all legth = 50 1/8"
Breach            = 1 1/8 "
wedding band=  .870   11" from the standing breach
Muzzle            =  .775
Waist of swamp = .742  6" from the muzzle
Height of Butt     = 4  5/8"
Width of Butt      = 1 7/8"
wrist width at nose of comb =  1 1/4"
wrist height"                        =  1 3/8"
Trigger pull length   = 13  1/4 "
lock plate length     =  5 3/4"
Lock plate width     = 1 1/16"
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 08:04:21 AM by Dave B »
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2009, 02:47:52 PM »
Thanks!
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 03:01:22 AM »
What makes this 1750s?  Just curious.  I'm no expert on French fowlers but based upon what I have seen I would not date this quite so early.   ???
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Offline Dave B

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 08:49:14 AM »
Eric.
What time frame would you think it was from if you were to take a guess?
I am using only what was quoted by Lenk in the book he wrote on the history of the flintlock. There are a couple of pieces that he dates to that time period and they are very similar to this one with the locks being  Identical and the use of padded butt section and cheek piece. I talked with Wallace Gusler when I was back visiting and had it with me to show him and he said it could possibly be from the 1750'-60's.  So I defer to their expertise. It could have well been made later and am interested in any information any one else has on this type of fowler as well as pictures if possible. Ron Scott has a beautiful French s x s double That has the Identical shaped locks as mine which may be help full down the road if additional information can be uncovered on it. Mine has an unreadable name on the plate Delp_ _f....something  Paris is all I can make out. Can any of you make a guess as to the maker by the signature on the lock?


« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 09:02:17 AM by Dave B »
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 02:53:19 PM »
Well first of all I would definitely pay attention to anything Wallace told you about it as he sure seems to know his Euro work.  I was always under the assumption that French fowlers of this stock shaping and furnishings - especially the guard - were of a ca. 1770s date and soon moved into the round lock phase during the 1770s and 1780s.  Most of the time when I see a fowler like this in a Euro auction catalog, it is usually dated later.  For all I know it could be 1750s - what I am using as a basis for comparison is a French double fowler that I owned a few years back made by Davier L'aine in Lyon.  Tracking down the signature, all of the barrel markings on top and below the barrel (I was fortunate in that it had Tulle barrelmaker marks underneath) and the forge stampings on the iron furniture, we were able to very accurately date it to ca. 1755-1765.  In comparison to this gun, it had a much earlier appearance:  very large butt, the stereotypical "Tulle" shape to the stock and very early-looking furnishings.  Locks were original flint and very similar to what is on yours.  Unfortunately I seem to have lost my photos of it - might still have them on an old zip disk but have no way now to access them!  I wrote an article about it in MB mag where I discussed all of the markings and took the whole thing apart.  Don't know where it is now.  I'm not saying yours is not 1750s, just that in my mind I had imagined this style to be later.  Possibly, since yours was made in the metropolitan center of PAris and mine was made out in the sticks at Lyon, the difference is an issue of holdover provincial work vs. cutting-edge 'new' design.
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Offline alex e.

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 06:19:44 PM »
If one looks in Torsten Lenks's book, on plate 95 [page 108- 1/2] you will see two dated  guns of the same style, which   seems to have carried into the 1770's

Alex..
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Offline Dave B

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 11:17:38 PM »
Eric,
Thank you for that information. What issue of MB was the tulle article in? I vaguely remember that one and have it here some where. I would be very interested in your pictures should you come across them in future. I can see where one could see this being 1770's only additional information will be able to clarify the time frame.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: 1750's French Fowler
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2009, 02:44:26 AM »
I'm going to guess it was ca. 2000-2001 but I don't have a copy of it anymore other than my original typed copy.  The piece I had was a double and that aside, there was a pretty dramatic architectural and hardware difference between the two pieces.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!