Jim Chambers Isaac Haines kit

[Deer Stalker]

Hello all,

I have been lurking here for a little while and have learned quite a bit in a short amount of time, what a fantastic forum! I Recently purchased an Isaac Haines kit from Jim chambers in .54 caliber with fancy wood and a wooden patch box. This is my first kit on this level of quality and amount of work needed. I have built a Lyman GPR few years ago that I shoot often and deer hunt with. But since I was a kid I have always been drawn to the mystique of the American Longrifle and decided I needed to pull the trigger on one. I have Recreating the American Longrifle and The Gunsmith of Grenville County and have studied these quite a bit. Anyways I look forward to taking part in this great community.

I do have one question for starters, on the Lyman instead of the traditional method of draw filing the barrel I used a stone to remove the machining marks and polished it with crocus cloth. Have any of you ever used this method or should I try draw filing this barrel?

Thanks,

Nick

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Welcome to our world, Nick.  You'll find great support here.

The barrel with your Haines parts set will likely have machine marks.  Draw filing is the preferred method to remove them and create a uniform finish on the barrel.  That can be followed with abrasive cloth/paper and end up at whatever level of polish floats your stick.
Draw filing is the act of drawing the file toward you, by holding the handle in the left hand, the file at 90 degrees to the barrel.  Alternately, you can push the file away from you if you find that gives you better control, and in that case the file handle will be in the right hand.

[smylee grouch]

Hi Deer Stalker and welcome.  I don't know which kit Jim Chambers sells the most of but I would think that the Isaac Haines might be one of those most popular by the number of them I have seen. All for a good reason, they are quality and make a real handy well handling shooting/hunting rifle. Your book selections are good ones and if you can't find the solution to any snags you might have in the books you will probably find the right help on this forum.  Best wishes and good luck on your build.

[Dwshotwell]

Deer Stalker, I have the exact same kit (Chambers Isaac Haines in 54 with wooden patchbox) sitting on my bench and I plan to get started this weekend. This is my first kit of this level. I just finished a Kibler Colonial last week. This project will definitely be more work but I'm looking forward to it. I've also built a TVM Early Virginia, which was a challenge.

Tonight I've been wrestling with whether or not I need to pull the breech plug to properly inlet the barrel and plug. I've been doing some digging here on the forum, and the consensus seems to be yes, pull the breech plug based on past posts, so I'm warming up to the task.

[Karl Kunkel]

Yes, pull the breech plug, inlet the barrel.  Then re-install the breech plug to inlet the lug and tang.

[Jerry V Lape]

I started muzzle loading with that same kit.  Makes a great rifle for hunting and I still carry it for elk when I get drawn for tags.  Didn't have any mentors, just couple of books and I got it done.  Went to the range for the first time with great trepidation about whether it was going to work properly.  Still have the first target with three shot clover leaf at 50 yards from bench rest. Later added a White Lightening touch hole liner which really improved lock time and reliability.  This board is a blessing to guys like us as there is a wealth of help generously shared by the members, many of whom are great builders. 

[smart dog]

Hi,
This link may help you with the project:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/building-a-chambers-isaac-haines-rifle-kit.116533/

dave

[Dwshotwell]

Your tutorial is great, Dave. Thank you.

[recurve]

The above help is why I love this site 

[Dwshotwell]

@recurve... absolutely. The generosity of the experienced builders on this site is incredible. I’ve been lurking for three years now and have learned a lot about not just historic firearms, but metallurgy, blacksmithing, engraving, and just plain - old problem solving. Thanks to all.

[Ky-Flinter]

I do have one question for starters, on the Lyman instead of the traditional method of draw filing the barrel I used a stone to remove the machining marks and polished it with crocus cloth. Have any of you ever used this method or should I try draw filing this barrel?

Deer Stalker,

Welcome to ALR.  If removing the machining marks with a stone/crocus cloth works for you, then certainly use it.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.  Enjoy your build.

-Ron

[Deer Stalker]

Thank you everyone for your comments, well wishes and advice/support. I will post pictures as I go through my journey building this rifle!

[Darkhorse]

I would buy a couple of DVD's from Jim Chambers website concerning building his kits. This way you actually get to see it done and that can be invaluable.

[Deer Stalker]

I would buy a couple of DVD's from Jim Chambers website concerning building his kits. This way you actually get to see it done and that can be invaluable.

Yes I forgot to mention that, I also bought the DVD of Jim Turpin assembling the chambers kit.

Thank you

[paulitus]

I have never been a draw filer. I am a push filer. Just my preference. I learned these techniques when I attended the gunsmith school at Trinidad State Jr College, in 1976-1977. Also learned to work a stock from a blank, which I still do today. In fact, my chisel and gouge set that I use today, I fabricated at TSJC. They may not be pretty but they have been working all these many years.

[Dwshotwell]

I got the breach plug pulled and got the barrel close to flat against the back of the inlet, but the barrel channel is too tight to get the barrel down all the way. I’m reluctant to shave wood off the sides in fear of making it too loose, but I think there’s no choice.

Also, my stock at the forend has a severe twist. I think I can get it straightened out when the barrel is down in the channel, but I’m hoping this is normal.

[Deer Stalker]

I got the breach plug pulled and got the barrel close to flat against the back of the inlet, but the barrel channel is too tight to get the barrel down all the way. I’m reluctant to shave wood off the sides in fear of making it too loose, but I think there’s no choice.

Also, my stock at the forend has a severe twist. I think I can get it straightened out when the barrel is down in the channel, but I’m hoping this is normal.

I am at this stage as well essentially, I have been cleaning up the barrel first but I can confirm that there is plenty of inletting to be done in the barrel channel for it to fit.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Hopefully, you are using some sort of inletting black or Prussian blue to put on the barrel so it marks the tight spots in the stock.  Always apply the blacking sparingly with a stiff brush.  I tend to use a skew or flat chisel as scrapers and scrape the stock where the inletting black marks it.  Blacken the bottom and sides of the barrel, push it in place, scrape the marked spots, repeat until it goes in snuggly with finger pressure. You may find, as I did, that the breech of the barrel has to move backward and possibly down a little so the vent hole will clear the breech plug.  On these kits, you cannot move the lock much at all so the only way to position the vent hole correctly if needed is to move the barrel.  The link below shows doing this on another kit gun and explains the correct lock and vent hole position.
  https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/building-a-chambers-little-fellas-rifle.110688/

dave

[Dwshotwell]

Thank you Dave. Helpful as always. I’ve hung around enough to have a vague idea of what to do and how to go about it, but when you’re inexperienced it can be a bit nerve wracking to put chisel to wood.

Your tutorials are excellent.

DS

[Jeff Durnell]

I'm a few steps ahead of you guys on my first gun, also a Chambers Isaac Haines. I removed the breech plug, inlet the barrel, then reinstalled the breech plug and inlet it again.

I ended up moving my barrel back 1/8 or so to be sure the touch hole liner would be just in front of the plug face, and the barrel went down just a hair as I inlet it. I used Prussian blue ink mixed in vasoline to do my inletting so far, but just ordered some inletting black as well.

I got all those videos and books but I'm still very nervous. I have the barrel in and pinned. The lock inlet and with working clearance, and the brass lock plate inlet, drilled, and lock drilled and tapped. Now I'm working on getting the trigger in and started moving thd buttplate forward the other day. I've been moving very, very slow. I have so many other things going on to boot, you guys will probably be done before I am. 

I got the Davis double set trigger to put in instead of the one supplied with the kit. I don't know if you guys did this or not, but if you did, you may want to order a trigger guard with more room for the double triggers. Mine didn't look like enough so I ordered a wax cast Haines/Bivins trigger guard from Track of the Wolf yesterday.... upon the suggestion of an experienced gun builder friend. If anyone thinks they might run into the same situation, I'll get the exact model number when I get home.

[Dwshotwell]

Hey Jeff... welcome to our “rifle build - along, Chambers Haines Edition.” I sort of highjacked DeerSlayers thread for this purpose, but it should be good for all three of us.  I intend to take my time as well.

As of right now I still need to bring my barrel back a little to square it as the start of the tang inlet had a little radius to it on either side. I do need to check against the lock to see where the vent hole lines up as Dave suggested in his tutorial post. After that I’ll start taking the barrel downward. Plenty of inletting black and I think I have finally gotten decent at chisel sharpening.

I was going to stick with the standard pinned trigger for this build. I did consider trying to substitute a brass patch box for the wooden one but I think I’ll keep it simple for this build.

[Jeff Durnell]

Thanks. Me too bud. I got the brass patch box kit, but I think I may do the wooden one on this gun, and do brass on the next one. This is challenging enough as it is. 

The brass side plate that came had a void in it. I was going to let it go, but it got to bothering me, so I ordered a piece of brass plate and made a new one. No voids in the plate.

My other minor setback was due to the fact that I bought an older Haines lock stock and Getz barrel off a guy here, but I had to order the hardware from Chambers, which was fine, everything works great except for the barrel tenons on the Getz barrel are bigger than their newer Buckeye ones, so I made my lugs from scratch. I enjoyed that. Turned out good. I actually like mine better 

I hope to get some time this weekend to work on it.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Quite a number of years ago, my across the street neighbour built a Chambers' Isaac Haines parts set in my shop.  the rifle turned out very well.especially for his first build.  It's a .54 cal...here's a couple of pics of the finished rifle.  The kit came with wood to make a butt trap, but we made the brass box from sheet brass.

[Dwshotwell]

Quite inspirational, Taylor. He did a great job.

Since the stock was cut for the wood patchbox (dovetails etc.) did he modify anything, or essentially just fit the brass box in its place? That is, are the dovetails etc. all still intact underneath the brass? If there's no modification, I may see about doing brass. If it means a bunch of extra monkeying around, other than inletting the brass, I probably will run with the wood. Based on the amount of inletting black on my hands from wrestling with the barrel last night, that may be for the best anyway!

[Deer Stalker]

Hello all,

My project took a backseat during spring, summer and deer season. I have picked it up again. I have some questions. I have been working on getting the barrel inletted fully as well as making sure it ends up in the right location. How deep should I be inletting the barrel? I understand it depends on touchhole location which looks okay based on the location of the lock. I am concerned about having enough room when I get to sanding and finishing the stock etc.. Also I have inlet the lock mortise and have a rather large gap currently. Is it common with these kits to have to remove so much material from that inside face?

Thanks,

Deer Stalker