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Author Topic: Help with a southern poor boy N.C. Piedmont Area ??  (Read 4391 times)

Offline jdm

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Help with a southern poor boy N.C. Piedmont Area ??
« on: March 15, 2021, 07:11:06 PM »
This came into the Princeton show  delivered by a ne'er-do-well from southern Missouri ( LP).  It came out of South Dakota thirty or so years ago.It has a long almost forty-eight inch barrel .To say  The lock is a little different would be an understatement .  Any thoughts or ideas about who or where it was made would be appreciated.











measure my laptop screen online
« Last Edit: January 12, 2024, 09:10:26 PM by jdm »
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JIM

Offline jdm

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2021, 07:12:51 PM »








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JIM

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2021, 07:52:14 PM »
Whoever did this conversion was thinking.This is a great artifact IMHO.
The inverted cup over the nipple was probably added after the first shot
was fired and someone got cap fragments in the face or eyes.No idea
as to who did this or where it came from.
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 07:56:19 PM by Bob Roller »
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Offline Ken G

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2021, 08:22:25 PM »
Sorry,  I can't help on who or where but thanks for the picture of that conversion and grease box.  You gave me something to study on today.

Ken
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2021, 09:02:55 PM »
 If this gun were mine, I’d hunt up a percussion lock that fits the mortise ( very likely a Golcher) and put it in the gun. Then I’d display the current lock as a  beautiful piece of mountain engineering.

  Hungry Horse
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Offline okieboy

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2021, 10:47:57 PM »
No one is mentioning that the lock isn't even close to fitting the mortise. That raises some questions.
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Okieboy

Offline Buck

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2021, 12:31:15 AM »
Jim,

Cool rifle - I like it.

Buck
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Offline Tanselman

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2021, 01:48:59 AM »
I'd think the most probable origin was western NC or southestern KY. The low comb hints a little more at NC. Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 05:21:55 AM by Tanselman »
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Offline jdm

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2021, 02:35:51 AM »
Shelby, I've been thinking North Carolina but want to here from others to reinforce the theory or send it in another direction.  Did you mean southeastern KY????
 This rifle put me in mind of the relic rifle Mike Books had posted some time ago. I looked for it but couldn't find it. Thanks everyone for looking.
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JIM

Offline jdm

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2021, 02:39:12 AM »
okieboy ,
 I don't think the owner was concerned  as much with the lock fitting the mortise as he was with it working.
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JIM

Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2021, 03:45:00 AM »
Love the stories that rifle has to tell.
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2021, 03:46:41 AM »
Quote from: Hungry Horse on March 15, 2021, 09:02:55 PM
If this gun were mine, I’d hunt up a percussion lock that fits the mortise ( very likely a Golcher) and put it in the gun. Then I’d display the current lock as a  beautiful piece of mountain engineering.

  Hungry Horse
I would not touch it, I can't help to think there is a good possibility that all the parts are original to that gun when it was built out of re-cycled parts. Good old mountain ingenuity, some have their barn rifles, some their hog rifles Jim might have a "make do" rifle ;).  Could be wrong, probably am.
Dennis
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Offline Howard

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2021, 02:36:16 PM »
The rifle looks great just as it is.  I like it !!
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2021, 03:09:05 PM »
Quote from: jdm on March 16, 2021, 02:35:51 AM
Shelby, I've been thinking North Carolina but want to here from others to reinforce the theory or send it in another direction.  Did you mean southeastern KY????
 This rifle put me in mind of the relic rifle Mike Books had posted some time ago. I looked for it but couldn't find it. Thanks everyone for looking.
First thing I thought of too.
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Offline Hlbly

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2021, 03:37:32 PM »
Architecture looks Piedmont NC. I also have seen that type of conversion a few other times around here. Saves having to buy and mount another hammer.
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Offline gibster

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2021, 03:44:38 PM »
Nice rifle Jim. Wish I could have made the show.  My thoughts when I first looked at the pictures was western NC. But Gerald has forgotten more than I will ever know about these things and if he says the Piedmont area, I would bank on it.  I'm with Dennis on making any changes to the lock.  I would leave it as is.
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2021, 04:59:07 PM »
 As Jim mentioned, the lock doesn’t fit the mortise, so its not the original lock. Besides there’s only one lock bolt through the stock, which usually points to a gun being originally percussion. So, this is a backwoods make it work patch job. No doubt due to the failure of the original percussion lock that likely was hardware store quality.

 Hungry Horse
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2021, 08:16:33 PM »
Or he might have picked up used pieces until he could assemble them into a workable gun.

Dennis
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2021, 08:50:24 PM »
Quote from: Hungry Horse on March 16, 2021, 04:59:07 PM
Besides there’s only one lock bolt through the stock, which usually points to a gun being originally percussion.
 Hungry Horse

Not so much on southern mountain rifles. I at least two original flint rifles with only 1 lock bolt and have seen several built that way. Not trying to say this stock was original flint, don't know.
Dennis

Here are a couple:





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Offline jdm

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2021, 09:31:00 PM »
To ease some minds . As long has I have this rifle nothing will change. It's my feeling this lock was put in during period of use to keep the rifle working.  It's part of the cool factor anyway.
Dennis is correct  there are a number of southern made guns with single screw flints. I don't believe this is one . I think it's always been percussion.
Thanks for the pics Dennis
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JIM

Offline mbriggs

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2021, 10:58:45 PM »
To back up what Gerald says, when many collectors from other states see an iron mounted rifle that is possibly from North Carolina, they often assume incorrectly that it must be from the Appalachian School or a mountain rifle.  There were many simple iron mounted rifles made in the Bear Creek School in Moore and Chatham Counties, and Early Deep River School in Randolph, Guilford, and Alamance Counties.  Each of these counties are over 100 miles east of the the Appalachian mountains and located in the Piedmont of North Carolina.

The rifle featured in this post has a wonderful look to it and I can only imagine it put a lot of meat on the table over the years.  Thanks for posting it.

Michael
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Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2021, 08:40:07 AM »
I have often wondered how Nathaniel Wyeth converted flintlocks to percussion in the field for his fur brigade. Something like that would sure fit the bill.   
TCA
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 09:56:45 AM by T.C.Albert »
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Offline jdm

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2021, 04:18:48 AM »
Thank you everyone for your replies.
Hlbly and Michael  thanks for narrowing it down for me.It will give me something to read up on.  So many times we say a rifle is from a certain area . Lehigh,  Bedford , Appalachian school . As with this one the Piedmont area of North Carolina. I often wonder what these places were like during the time period of the different rifles we are discussing.  In the case  of this rifle was it pretty well settled  or rural .Poor or wealthy . What was the land like.  What were the people like. I can imagine the owner of this one struggling to make a go of things. He needed something that shot well but was with in his means. Maybe he headed of to South Dakota ( where this one was found )  looking for gold trying to better himself.   Who knows.
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JIM

Offline David Rase

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2021, 05:11:29 PM »
Quote from: jdm on March 16, 2021, 02:35:51 AM
Shelby, I've been thinking North Carolina but want to here from others to reinforce the theory or send it in another direction.  Did you mean southeastern KY????
 This rifle put me in mind of the relic rifle Mike Books had posted some time ago. I looked for it but couldn't find it. Thanks everyone for looking.












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Offline jdm

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Re: Help with a southern poor boy
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2021, 08:45:09 PM »
For a minute I wondered what the heck happened to my rifle.  Thanks David for posting these. I knew they were somewhere on the site.  No doubt.they came from the same area.
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JIM
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