Morphy's "Albrecht" rifle

[Eric Kettenburg]

Young Frankengun!

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_A__LOT_OF_2__FLINTLOCK_RIFLE_WITH_BARREL_MARKED_A-LOT503712.aspx

Since nobody else is posting it, I'll slap it up here.  Bob L and I have discussed this piece previously and he sent me the link.  He's more polite and reserved than I am.  I think it's a beat to death old German gun with an added signature, seems Morphy's thinks so too.

Have at it.   

[WESTbury]

Just the difference in the condition and legibility between the "ALBRECHT" signature and the date marking would give even a longrifle amateur like me pause. 

[rich pierce]

Nice job with the description by Morphy’s.  However, down the road someone will own it and may say it was sold as the real deal. I did like the script style on the barrel.

[spgordon]

When I first heard that this rifle had "surfaced" some years ago--five or seven or so--I strongly suspected that it was a fake. It was just too good to be true--and the forger was too clever by half by inserting that #6 (presumably to bring it in line with the numbering on the Oerter rifles but, I believe, using a mistaken theory as to what the numbering means).

If it were authentic, it would be the earliest signed & dated barrel in early America (I think?).

I am shocked, though, that Morphy's designates it as a "probable" forgery ("spurious"), given some of the nonsense that has appeared recently in their catalog descriptions.

I sort of want to purchase it just to try to get the barrel signature dated.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Given Morphy's estimate of value, they clearly assume it's a fake.  I'm assuming most of the value is tied up in the other bundled piece, probably why they bundled it.

Scott - a question that I posed to Bob - if Albrecht had actually signed this in 1760, would he have used the English "Christ: Spring?"

Of course the other 'begged' question is if he was marking barrels boldly in 'Oerter fashion' by 1760, what happened to all of the others between 1760 and Oerter's 1773-1776 string?

[spgordon]

Eric: To be honest, it still is puzzling that Oerter signed the barrels "Christ. Spring"--in English. I've been keeping an eye out for English-language uses of "Christian's Spring," instead of Christiansbrunn, and they are very rare in the 1770s and even in the 1780s. (I don't think I've ever seen this usage as early as 1774.) I have come across maybe five total and they occur always in documents meant for, or produced by, English speakers.

This strongly suggests to me that Oerter's rifles were delivered to or commissioned by English-speaking customers. I honestly cannot imagine another reason why they would have been signed with the very rare English version of "Christian's Spring."

So, I suppose, were this Albrecht signature authentic, he could have signed the barrel "Christ. Spring" for the same reason? But in this case I think the forger was just copying the Oerter practice.

[lexington1]

I wonder if the barrels of one or both guns have been stretched? They look like typical German guns to me, except for the long barrels.

[rich pierce]

My feelings about similarities or differences between this gun and guns largely accepted as Moravian guns from the Bethlehem/ Christians Spring area.

Buttstock profile: nope
Cheekpiece style: nope
Guard and buttplate: could easily fit.
Sideplate: nope
Tang carving: nope
Buttstock carving: nope

[WESTbury]

Okay, the two particular long guns in question are of German origin, reconverted and in the case of one of them, probably spuriously marked with a very famous stocker's name, "Albrecht". Possibly, one or both may have stretched barrels or stocks, which would take a visit to Morphy's in order to verify.

I would submit from my point of view, as a newcomer to longrifle study, that the study of German longrifles and fowlers, maybe not these two particular guns at Morphy's, is important for novices to understand the origins of the American stocked longrifle.

Also, it has been established that many German rifles and fowlers from the 17th and early 18th Centuries were imported by people like Casper Wistar and used by settlers. Yes, they had shorter barrels and different stock architecture, etc, etc, but from a historical perspective, they are important. My personal concern as an arms historian, is that we do not discourage study and possible collecting of these guns by novices like me, again not the two Morphy examples, or their value, historical significance, and contribution to North American history.

I am very aware that many of the guys on this forum have been studying the longrifles for many years and have amassed a great deal of knowledge and experience. Those of us that are newcomers very greatly appreciate their willingness to share their points of view.

I would recommend to my fellow newcomers to longrifles, my new friend Bob Lienemann's book Moravian GunmakingII to get a perspective on the significance of imported German 18th Century long guns. He devotes one whole chapter to a very particular German rifle and a second chapter to the Marshall Rifle which may or may not be a restocked (that statement may get some peoples nuts in a knot) earlier German import. Great photos throughout the book.

Speaking for myself, after 40 years of studying and writing about early Springfield Armory longarms, I'm so deep in the weeds with them that I may never find my way out. I do understand and appreciate where the more experienced longrifle students and collectors on this forum are coming from.

It is Sunday so I can preach and get away with it.    

[rich pierce]

Guns like the 2 for sale at Morphy are quite interesting in their own right and also helpful for any builder who focuses on colonial period guns. The relationship between Germanic long guns and the long rifle here has been explored for half a century and more, so it feels. George Shumway did quite a lot of that in the 1980s in Muzzle Blasts articles and in Rifles of Colonial America volume 1.

If I was in the market I’d buy them and wipe out the faked signature on the one we are discussing.

[Eric Kettenburg]

The second rifle bundled with the fake is actually a nice piece and I assume that it's where most of the value estimate is coming from.

I strongly suspect the 'Albrecht' piece began life (in present day, not originally) as a really beat, busted up German gun with a lot of wood losses and someone back down the ownership chain had something of a 'light bulb' moment, maybe just for fun or maybe not.  Who knows.  I remember looking at Hermann Historica auctions back in the 90s and they were practically giving things like that away.  Like most auction houses, they were also 'bundling' damaged, subpar or otherwise undesirable pieces and buyers could get a couple of them for a few hundred dollars. The only real cost was in getting them shipped to the US.  Good source of antique parts or for use to make what we now see here!

[Mike Brooks]

The bottom gun is a great gun. Lots to like there. The top one, not so much, obvious fake. It would be nice to "un Albrecht" it. File the name and the stupid patina off the barrel and replace the patch box cover and you'd have a nice German gun. I wonder if they are smoothbores?  Way tooo long for anything German and rifled. I suppose it's possible they were stretched, but that would be way too much work for what they are. They are even a bit long for German smooth bores...I have one that is 44" or so.

[spgordon]

I get the desire to "de-Albrecht" the one gun--but this forgery is an important historical occurrence in its own right, and I'd say a far more important one than the object that still exists "beneath" it. 

I wouldn't want to erase this fact that surely hints at many other forgeries driven by similar desires to have what history has not actually left us.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Mike, one of the few times I actually disagree with you.  Like Scott, I'd want to keep this atrocity exactly as-is just as some kind of weird example.  Someone in the last 20-40 years put a lot of work into this thing, an interesting psychological study.

BTW, I wish Immel (mostly MIA now) would sound off here as I'm sure he could provide examples of bona fide pieces that actually were this long.  I don't think either barrel has been stretched.  Maybe it wasn't crazy common, but they're out there.  Just need to look through the Euro auction catalogs.

[spgordon]

I'd want to keep this atrocity exactly as-is just as some kind of weird example.  Someone in the last 20-40 years put a lot of work into this thing, an interesting psychological study.

But how "weird" or unusual? That's what we don't know. And, maybe I'm just more cynical than you, Eric, but I don't think a "psychological study" is necessary: surely this forgery was produced to convert people's appetite for this very kind of object into cash. When it surfaced it was claimed to be authentic--not something somebody did for fun. In this case, the effort to make significant $$$ didn't work: the forgery was not convincing. In how many other cases has it succeeded?

Has anybody watched "Murder Among the Mormons" on Netflix? It is a story about a very successful forger of historical documents who produced exactly what he knew people were looking for.

[Mike Brooks]

Mike, one of the few times I actually disagree with you.  Like Scott, I'd want to keep this atrocity exactly as-is just as some kind of weird example.  Someone in the last 20-40 years put a lot of work into this thing, an interesting psychological study.

BTW, I wish Immel (mostly MIA now) would sound off here as I'm sure he could provide examples of bona fide pieces that actually were this long.  I don't think either barrel has been stretched.  Maybe it wasn't crazy common, but they're out there.  Just need to look through the Euro auction catalogs.

He used to be fun untill he discovered women....

[lexington1]

It would be nice to see these in person. I have sort of started collecting German guns over the last few years. Are these both smooth or rifled? I have had a couple German guns with long barrels (but not this long) that are rifled, but they had straight rifling. I understand the desirability of early American rifles, but it I am really starting to appreciate and enjoy these early German guns and I hate to see some of them hacked up to make American fakes. 

[Mike Brooks]

It would be nice to see these in person. I have sort of started collecting German guns over the last few years. Are these both smooth or rifled? I have had a couple German guns with long barrels (but not this long) that are rifled, but they had straight rifling. I understand the desirability of early American rifles, but it I am really starting to appreciate and enjoy these early German guns and I hate to see some of them hacked up to make American fakes.

Straight rifling is common on these long barreled German fowling guns. The one I mentioned above has deep rifling at the muzzle, but no further.

[Avlrc]

The bottom gun looks like there could be a splice in front of the lock plate.  Hard to see it on the other side. Maybe not.

[JTR]

The bottom gun looks like there could be a splice in front of the lock plate.  Hard to see it on the other side. Maybe not.

You're right. Among other things, the auction description states, "Stock has about the last 35" replaced."

[eastwind]

I have in my collection a letter dated November 28, 1948 from William Goodwin Renwick to Herman Dean. It reads:

  “I know for a fact that some very expert faker has been re-engraving pieces, changing locks, making new stocks for old barrels, etc. I strongly suspect a certain person. One of his specialties appears to be taking perfectly good European arms and engraving American names on them”.
 

     Both Dean and Renwick held large collections of early firearms with Renwick’s collection still considered the all-time largest personal collection of firearms on record. His collection took years to be auctioned in New York, California, and London. A look at his 1970s Sotheby’s auction indicated an unusually large amount of signed American guns. Among those was a pistol by Pomeroy, a rifle and a pistol by I. Mott, a Thomas Earl rifle, and a Martin Meillin rifle signed and dated 1705. All of these guns have been at one time or another suspected of spurious signatures.
   The only collector I knew who attended one of the Sotheby’s auctions was the late Walter O’Connor. Walter told me he had never seen so many early signed rifles as those at the Renwick 1972 -73 Los Angelos sales.
   The signatures I’ve seen on a few of the above guns are suspiciously like the one on the Morphy rifle – albeit the corrosive aging at the end is not common on the above-mentioned guns.
   I purchased an extensive collection of Herman Dean’s letters some years ago which reflect a continual problem between Dean and his collector friends over fake signatures found on early American guns, during the years 1940 and into the early 1950s. Dean's collection is in the Huntington Galleries in West Virginia – where I will donate these letters.
   If you look at the enormous supply of early guns shown in previous auction catalogs, one has to suspect most any signature on an American rifle dated earlier than 1750.   Just my opinion.
Patrick Hornberger

[WESTbury]

A collector is almost better off having rifles and RevWar muskets, particularly "US", "U-STATES" and state surcharged muskets, that are unmarked in anyway.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I've had access to quite a number of much older 'fake' marked pieces.  The markings in-hand are actually not that good.  I don't think this is one of them.  I very strongly suspect that this barrel was marked and toasted sometime post-1980s by someone who was a bit better.  See, the thought process here was to select a base gun that already was severely damaged/needed lots of restoration, so all of the added restoration and refinishing would not immediately act as neon warning lights.  The mucho restoration would be evident and expected (that's why it's not hidden well at all and is somewhat lousy), the idea being that the poor condition and blatant restoration would act as a distraction away from the barrel marking so that the barrel marking is viewed and there's the "wow" factor, but all the while the viewer is also investigating all of the other secondary work so the viewer doesn't 100% focus on the barrel.

It's all psychology.

[Elnathan]

Instead of "Un-Albrechting" the gun one could simply engrave another discrete note on the barrel, "Fak'd Sig" or something of that nature. Preserves the fact of the forgery while keeping it from being passed off as genuine at some later date. Just a thought.

[WESTbury]

It's all psychology.

Doctor Kettenburg,

It seems as though you have founded a whole new field of psychology.

What are your office hours? Do you offer remote therapy VIA zoom?

Kent