Author Topic: lead or leather to hold flint  (Read 3606 times)

oldhunter1954

  • Guest
lead or leather to hold flint
« on: April 01, 2021, 04:01:18 PM »
I have seen several well known sites talk about using lead instead of leather to hold the flint. Seems that leather gives and will let the flint bounce when it strikes the frizzen. I just started with flintlocks about a month ago. Any advice on this.

Thanks

Offline hawkeye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2021, 04:17:28 PM »
I prefer lead, but used sometimes leather.
Slips faster out as lead to my opinion
Hawkeye

Offline T.C.Albert

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3582
    • the hunting pouch
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2021, 04:17:45 PM »
I believe lead will eventually break your main spring.
Not sure if that only applies to rifles and pistols because I know military muskets routinely used lead.
Tim A
"...where would you look up another word for thesaurus..."
Contact at : huntingpouch@gmail.com

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1773
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2021, 04:28:31 PM »
I imagine that the moderaters will be moving this thread shortly.

I think it worth noting that least one of the leading lead advocates (now deceased, but his writings are a sticky for newbies at one of the other ML sites) also advocated reducing the mainspring strength down to around 10lbs. That has to be taken into account, I think.
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19520
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2021, 04:32:57 PM »
There’s nothing in this thread that moderators would be concerned about. We try to keep topics within the rules and especially not focused on insulting others. Lots of freedom in between those fence lines.

But maybe this fits better in the “Shooting” forum.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 05:11:48 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7906
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2021, 04:36:19 PM »
Do a search of this forums past topics. IIRC most lock Mfg. prefer leather

Offline curly

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
  • In GOD we trust
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2021, 05:46:25 PM »
I use elk leather. It stays plyable, doesn't slip, and lasts along time.

Offline kudu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2021, 05:50:57 PM »
most lock manufacturers say Leather

Im not Jim Chambers but I believe that's what he says, he'll probably "chime in" soon

Offline t.caster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3729
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2021, 05:54:53 PM »
I wonder if the weight of the lead slows the lock speed by a nano second? LOL

I've used leather for over 40 years and see no real benefit in changing. Of course I use rather flat top black flints which are easy to keep tight in the jaws..
Tom C.

Offline Steeltrap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 776
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2021, 06:42:27 PM »
What T.caster said

Offline flinchrocket

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2021, 07:37:20 PM »
I was thinking the increase of weight would break the hammer.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2021, 08:09:25 PM »
Having been a flint knapper for many years now, let me make a comment about the nature of flint. 
To make a flake run further through the stone, we apply pressure on the stone beneath the target area where we want the flake to run.  On a projectile point, that would be pressure of a gloved finger, or a leather pad.  If you substitute a harder material than leather, there is a chance that the flake will stop short of your goal and end up in a step fracture, and a short disappointing flake.
Applying this to the jaws of a cock, leather is better than lead to cushion the flint.  Leather will make the flint knap naturally to some extent as you shoot your rifle, whereas lead will cause the flint to remain thick and blunt by comparison, shortening its effective life and requiring more frequent knapping and replacement.
In addition, the added significant weight of the lead sheet puts unnecessary strain on the thin neck of the cock.  So I use leather cut from several sources, and keep a few new ones in my patchbox, or with the flint supply in my shooting bags.  I often use 4 oz. oak tanned carving leather, and also the leather cuffs from worn out work gloves.  It is a good idea to change the leather every time you change a flint.  The old leather becomes crushed between the steel jaws of the cock and the flint, and its clamping effectiveness is reduced at those spots, whereas a new leather perfectly conforms to the nuances of the new flint, cushioning it between the jaws, and absorbing the shock of the flint's collision with the frizzen.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15822
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2021, 08:20:46 PM »
I have used the very thin lead sheeting that is run inside X-Ray room walls. This sheet is very thin, but worked well in the flintlock I used it for.  With lead
around the flint, more/greater sparks appeared to be the result, compared to using leather. I still use leather, but think there might be a couple lead strips
in my flint wallet along with a leather patch or two.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1773
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2021, 08:28:18 PM »
There’s nothing in this thread that moderators would be concerned about. We try to keep topics within the rules and especially not focused on insulting others. Lots of freedom in between those fence lines.

But maybe this fits better in the “Shooting” forum.

I meant that this was in the wrong forum, not that there was anything in it to violate site rules.
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5335
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2021, 08:36:55 PM »
I experimented using lead to hold the flint quite a few years ago.  I didn't much like it.  With lead the flint was constantly loosening and it sparked no better than with leather; so I saw no benefit from using lead.  Now I use nothing but leather.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline t.caster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3729
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 09:02:28 PM »
D.Taylor, I LIKE your information posted above!
Thanks!
Tom C.

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 09:26:54 PM »
Taylor. I never thought or heard of that aspect before. Only a flintknapper would think of that.  Good thinking. I have used both lead and leather before and never could detect much difference in the spark but didn't like the added weight to the hammer. Besides Jim Chambers once warned of a the hammer breaking with lead.  Thanks.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline moleeyes36

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1443
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 10:45:09 PM »
I have seen several well known sites talk about using lead instead of leather to hold the flint. Seems that leather gives and will let the flint bounce when it strikes the frizzen. I just started with flintlocks about a month ago. Any advice on this.

Thanks


Your rifle is a Kibler Colonial Rifle and I'm pretty sure it has a Kibler lock on it.  Jim Chambers has stated that he recommends not using lead to hold the flint in his locks.  I don't recall if Jim Kibler has ever said what he recommends for using with his locks.  Perhaps if he sees this he will jump in here.

Don Richards
Don Richards
NMLRA Field Rep, Instructor, Field Range Officer
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer

Offline flehto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3335
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2021, 12:24:43 AM »
Possibly some don't apply enough force w/ the leather because of the narrow screwdriver slots in many lock screws. I file hex flats on the lock  screw head which aren't  noticeable but allow the use of a hex socket wrench. Never used lead because scrap leather is so available.....Fred
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 12:28:12 AM by flehto »

oldhunter1954

  • Guest
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2021, 01:18:17 AM »
I imagine that the moderaters will be moving this thread shortly.

I think it worth noting that least one of the leading lead advocates (now deceased, but his writings are a sticky for newbies at one of the other ML sites) also advocated reducing the mainspring strength down to around 10lbs. That has to be taken into account, I think.

Did I say something wrong? Why would the moderators move this thread ?

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19520
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2021, 01:54:43 AM »
Nothing wrong but maybe it would get more traffic if in the Shooting section.
Andover, Vermont

oldhunter1954

  • Guest
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2021, 03:06:05 AM »
Would be okay if a moderator did move it for me. And now I know there’s a forum just for shooting. I misunderstood.

Offline Karl Kunkel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 977
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2021, 03:44:44 AM »
Lead may be appropriate for use in large military musket locks, but as others have previously noted, Jim Chambers has repeated recommended against it's use in his locks.
Kunk

Offline Tim Ault

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2021, 04:26:52 AM »
I've used lead before but it was very thin maybe .020 thick tops , it don't need to be very thick,Didn't weigh very much either I can't see it breaking anything ,I also use leather both did what it suppose to .my take on the subject

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15822
Re: lead or leather to hold flint
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2021, 04:45:31 AM »
Same here, Tim. The stuff I have is very thin. now, if someone was to make one as thick as leather, there would be weight to it.
Not saying there is no weight to the thin stuff, just not much.  When I tested lead, I was using Rich's "next to depleted uranium"
river rocks for a flint, so it sparked REALLY well. I don't even remember which rifle that was in - might have been my pistol.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V