Engraving a Kibler Colonial Rifle

[Wolfeknives]

Quite a while ago I purchased a Kibler Colonial kit. It was to be an incentive to learn engraving and carving skills, and then decorate the rifle. So, I assembled the rifle , and left it sitting, waiting for some finishing and the engraving/carving.
I now decided that it is time to actually commit to learn some engraving and carving. I will be able to do some final finishing and stock work when it gets warmer and I can use my woodworking shed.
In the meantime I can finish some of the metal parts, and hopefully get them engraved. I have spent a good part of the past two weeks practicing engraving. The first week was dedicated to cutting straight lines. I still need lots of practice on those. For a break, I started a couple of practice plates last week. Before I go on with these, I feel it may be wise to decide on a style of engraving I will use on the rifle, and practice that.
I very much like the Shippers style of engraving, but I am not sure if that would be totally inappropriate for the colonial rifle?
I may be completely wrong, but it seems that most of the flintlock rifle engraving is loosely based on acanthus leaves.
All opinions and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Wolfgang

[rich pierce]

I’d study originals. Do you have any books with good pictures of originals?  Guessing you are thinking on engraving your signature on the barrel and maybe sideplate? Or did you install a brass patchbox?

You could also look at upcoming and past auctions and get ideas. Focus on early styles as the Kibler Colonial is of early styling.

[Wolfeknives]

Thank you Rich.Yes, I do have a number of books, as well as many of the Kentucky Rifle Association discs. I have looked trough my books, but found that most of the early rifles carried very little engraving. One that stood out with modest engraving was RCA 18, the Schreit rifle. I will go through the CD's as well, maybe better photos and additional info there.
I was hoping to engrave the side plate, lock and top portion of the buttplate, if at all appropriate. I got the wood patchbox lid, so no engraving there.

[jerrywh]

   The plain truth is that most original if not all never had any engraving on the lockplates. The reason being due to the fact that almost all the locks were imported from England or other European countries and they were case hardened. The colonial gunmakers seldom ever bothered to anneal them to engrave.  Most engraving was on the patch boxes or the side plates and hardly ever anyplace else. All the books will testify to this. However, Nowadays we like to fantasize and engrave every part to look mostly like English or German guns were. I am one of the worst at this. Highly engraved guns of today just aren't true examples of the originals. The shipper's book is great but those examples are almost all English. You don't need to be a great engraver to simulate a colonial long rifle. Most the colonial gunsmiths were lousy engravers. This isn't blasphemy it is the truth  If your engraving looks pretty bad it will be historically correct. There were some real great engravers in colonial America but they never did guns. Paul Revere was a good one.

[Wolfeknives]

Thank you Jerry. Since this rifle is somewhat non specific, I think I will be ok with the engraving style I prefer. If working in the style of a specific gunsmith, I would be happy in using the appropriate engraving.
Hopefully I will do at least a little better than "bad". I still have some time to practice, and with any luck attend some classes when this covid thing is over.

My first attempts are clumsy and heavy handed, but I will keep cutting and hopefully develop more of a feel for the engraving tools. I believe some version of the stuff I have started with in my first practice plates will not be totally out of place? Maybe some simplified versions?

[flinchrocket]

Depends on if you want it to look like a PA rifle or the back of a dollar bill.

[Swampwalker]

Wolfeknives, your engraving looks good, but is more the style used after 1850 or so, while the rifle is more pre-revolutionary in style.  If you care about such things, then I would suggest you look at pre-revolutionary engraving styles and practice drawing and engraving those.  Of course its your rifle.

[rich pierce]

If only I was clumsy and heavy handed! That’s what I’ve been missing all these years.

All kidding aside, that style of engraving does not say 18th century longrifle to me. I’d look at Newcomer for inspiration.

[Big Bubba]

Clumsy and heat handed?  Who are you kidding, that looks great. I'm no expert, but that does look a little to fancy for that period gun.

[smart dog]

Hi Wolfgang,
You have done wonderfully learning to engrave.  Well done.  I can see some of the rough areas and uneven line thicknesses but your current work exceeds virtually all 18th century long rifles.  Therein lies the problem.  Do you engrave as you can or follow historical examples.  Schipper's book does not present very good examples of historically correct American or British engraving during the 18th century.  He relies too much on banknote style cross hatched shading and details.  However, his book is very valuable for explaining the tools and engraving process. You will run into a conundrum. Even though you can engrave sophisticated designs, should you on a long rifle to be historically consistent?  Of course it depends on your objectives but I can tell you from experience, the restraint is hard when yo can do better.  Here is a lock I engraved for my Edward Marshall rifle and it is closely based on the original.  You can see the design is sophisticated but the execution is simple.  Note the lack of effective shading, for example.  I am sure the original was engraved in Germany before export to colonial America. Regardless, it likely represents the best you will find on colonial and Rev War period American-made guns.  Can I engrave better? of course I can.  I engraved the butt plate at the bottom.

dave
 

[Craig Wilcox]

Wolfgang, when you said "practice plates", I envisioned hordes of right and left curls, some straight lines, maybe the beginning of a flower.
But you do really great work!  I cannot keep the tip in the metal, resulting in skids and jerks all over the place.
Listen to Dave (Smart Dog, above) and Jerry WH.  They are both recognized as really good engravers, and if they say you are good, you are.
But they are also right about the engraving matching the period that you are attempting to emulate.
Again, though, it is YOUR firearm that is getting decorated - so if you want, make it truly yours with your beautiful engraving.  Ain't no flies on your work at all!

[James Rogers]

Schipper's book does not present very good examples of historically correct American or British engraving during the 18th century.  He relies too much on banknote style cross hatched shading and details.  However, his book is very valuable for explaining the tools and engraving process.

Agreed

[Wolfeknives]

Thank you so much Craig and especially Dave for giving me the advise I had hoped for. I know that I would not be happy in the future if I decorated the rifle in an inappropriate style. Your insights have pointed me in the right direction.
Up to this point I have been happy to shoot my rifles, and gain a very, very basic understanding of the different schools and periods. I am now hoping to build a few rifles, so need to study study details.
Work I have produced in the past 40 years has demanded that I do the absolute best I can do, so has become ingrained. But I have also learned to appreciate what is appropriate in certain items.
I hope it is ok to post some ideas for critique as I proceed.
Wolfgang

[jerrywh]

Wolfeknives.
  your engraving is very good and I don't give out false compliments. The scroll work is excellent and so are the borders. However that border would be out of place on almost any American long rifle.  I have seen two American longrifles with that border if my memory is correct. Both of them had silver mounts and were very elaborate.

[rich pierce]

Morphy Auction in May has the famous Newcomer rifle. Tastefully engraved with English influence. http://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_a__iconic_relief_carved_early_flintlock_kentucky_-lot505594.aspx

[Wolfeknives]

Thank you for the compliment Jerry, it means a lot. I understand what you are saying about the borders. Nick and dot, or curving line, simple borders will be more appropriate. I will practice these.

Rich, those are some excellent photos for study. I took screen shots for reference.

[smart dog]

Hi Wolfgang,
Here are a few examples I did that I think illustrate some key points about engraving on colonial and Rev War period American rifles.  The first 2 are copied or closely inspired by 2 iconic original guns, one by Haines, and the other by Dickert (though I don't think he did the engraving).




Notice the lack of much shading.  When shading was done it was often by cutting deep with a round-bottomed graver or by cutting converging lines and more or less mashing them into the area to be darkest.  That rather than the precise cross hatching you see in Schipper's examples and bank note engraving.  You will encounter cross hatched shading on few guns by it was used sparingly and again, shading was used sparingly.

Later, after the Rev War and into the 19th century, engraving on many American rifles became more sophisticated and complex.  The photo below show a side plate I did in the manner of John Noll.  It might date from 1800 or so.  You can see more shading by cross hatching and dimensionality.   



Every one does their own thing.  I try to emulate original styles as closely as I can.  In most cases I don't copy an original but create my own designs within the historical genre and context of the original.  Often, that calls for restraint.

dave

[Jim Kibler]

Wolfe,

Your engraving is really nice!  Especially if you're just getting started.  I just sent you an email, by the way.

For those who don't know Wolfe's knife work, you should check it out.  It's almost beyond imagination! 

One thing that to consider...  Things can be niave and fantastic or simply a mess.  It shouldn't be used as an excuse.  I see this sometimes.

Jim