Author Topic: Tour of a Fine English Lock  (Read 5807 times)

Offline smart dog

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Tour of a Fine English Lock
« on: April 06, 2021, 08:53:55 PM »
Hi,
I thought I would give you folks a tour around a fine 1785-1790s English lock made by a top London maker.  H. W. Mortimer was one of the best makers in London during the last quarter of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th century.  He was unusual in that he was free of the gun makers guild but also the goldsmith's guild.  He did a lot of his own decorative silver and gold work. 





The lock probably is from the late 1780s and features a flat beveled plate and flintcock, guttered gold lined pan, roller frizzen, and tumbler with stirrup.  The decoration is simple and includes some sparse engraving and Mortimer's name engraved within a gold inlaid panel.  Even if the lock was finished bright, the dark running leaf border would make the gold name plate stand out.  The tumbler bridle also is extensively engraved, something that was not uncommon on higher quality guns.  The lock plate and flint cock feature nice "ovolo"moldings typical of better flat-faced English locks.  British makers borrowed that design from the furniture and architectural trades.








Looking inside, you can see the wonderfully engraved bridle.  The mainspring is itself a work of art.  The long lug or tab on the upper leaf positions that leaf low relative to the bolster.  That allows the lock to be mated with large barrels without the spring breaking into the barrel channel.  Note that the lower leaf gracefully tapers in thickness.  When the lock is brought back to full cock, the lower leaf is straight and the main bend pinched. That shows the entire spring is working rather than the main stress happening at the middle of the lower leaf as in the modern-made lock shown below.










As the lock is brought to half cock, look how close the pivot on the bottom of the stirrup and within the claw of the mainspring comes to the axle of the tumbler.  At full cock, it is very close giving the mechanism very strong mechanical advantage.  Also note how little the spring moves upward from half cock to full.  There is a bit of let off in force needed to bring it to full cock. The lock requires 6.7 lbs of force to bring it to half cock and 6 lbs of force to bring it to full.  In contrast, for the modern-made lock showed previously, the force required to bring it to half cock is 9 lbs and 10.2 lbs to bring it to full. Note how robust the stirrup is on the Mortimer lock and it is pinned to the tumbler with a tiny screw rather than loosely sitting in a yoke.   

The position of the sear does not change when the lock is at rest, half cock, and full cock as shown below.







That is highly desirable when you are fitting a simple trigger to the lock.  You can fit it so there is no trigger rattle at any position, and no trigger creep when firing.  The tumbler does not have a fly detent and doesn't need it because the gun is fitted with a simple trigger.  The configuration of the notches is perfect. As you can see the lip of the half cock notch is a shorter distance from the tumble axel than the lip on the full cock notch.






That prevents the sear from slipping into the half cock notch when the gun is fired.  Some modern locks have that relation reversed and rely on an overly large fly to push the sear away from the half cock notch. You often will notice excessive wear on the tip of the sear where it rides over the fly on those locks. The bridle, sear, and tumbler have friction reducing collars.  However, I believe the height of those on this lock is over kill and likely a marketing gimmick more than anything else.


The frizzen has a roller bearing in its toe, a feature that became popular in the late 1770s and 1780s.  Later locks usually had a roller mounted in the spring.  For its size, the frizzen is thick, which I believe adds mass and enhances sparking.


It requires 4 lbs to open it, which is about 69% of the maximum force required to pull the flintcock back to full from rest.  That is a bit stiffer than I usually try to achieve on my locks but the proof is that this lock really sparks!









By the time this Mortimer lock was made, the styling of British sporting guns changed from what we often think of as the classic mid-18th century British gun.  Combs were lower, butt stocks smaller, locks smaller, and almost always flat faced on anything but military, cheap livery and trade guns.  Wrist checkering was evolving.  It is a great lock and represents top of the line work by a great maker.     

dave           

"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline ed lundquist

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2021, 09:07:11 PM »
Thank you.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2021, 09:09:21 PM »
He was also a good teacher as some of his apprentice,,s went on to be high quality and famous gun makers too. I think Manton , maybe Purdy, and Boss come to mind and probably more.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2021, 09:56:21 PM »
Thanks, Dave.  That lock screams quality!  Best,

      Ed
Ed Wenger

Offline far55

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2021, 10:04:36 PM »
I really appreciate the time and knowledge you share in posts like this, it helps dummies like me to get a better grasp on lock construction, Roland

Offline smart dog

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2021, 10:06:59 PM »
Hi Smylee,
Mortimer was probably a good teacher but he mainly taught his sons.  John Manton was apprenticed to William Edson of Grantham.  Nothing is known of Edson except he was associated with Edward Newton's gun shop in Grantham.  It is possible that he was Newton's foreman and allowed to take on apprentices like Manton.  The key player here is the great Edward Newton who taught Robert Wogdon and John Twigg, and probably John Manton.  John Manton then went off to become John Twigg's foreman in London before setting up on his own.  Joe Manton was initially apprenticed to probably William Newton in Grantham but switched to his brother, John in London.  Thomas Boss learned his trade first from James Purdey and then Joe Manton.  James Purdey apprenticed to W. K. Hutchinson and then went on to work for Joe Manton. He left Manton and worked for Alexander Forsythe, the inventor of practical percussion ignition for firearms.  Then Purdey struck out on his own.  The "academic father, grandfather, and great grandfather " in all of this is Edward Newton from the little market town of Grantham.  It is also fascinating that Edward Newton, William Newton, John Twigg, Robert Wogdon, John Manton, and Joe Manton were all raised in Grantham. 

dave
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 10:22:57 PM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Oil Derek

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2021, 10:15:43 PM »
I really appreciate the time and knowledge you share in posts like this, it helps dummies like me to get a better grasp on lock construction, Roland

Dave ... ditto for me too! Far55 said it better than I could. Thanks.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2021, 10:28:08 PM »
Hi Dave and thank you for that info. I can't member the title now but thought that I had read that john manton had worked under Mortimer and after your post I think I remember some of those other names working under manton.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2021, 11:23:06 PM »
Lock MAKING as opposed  to assembly is a combination of several skill sets involving
machines,spring making involving shaping hardening and tempering and choosing and
sourcing materials.We have an advantage today that wasn't even dreamed of 250 years ago
in the sourcing of material and precision measurement with now common tool like a simple
micrometer.
  The lock shown here is a marvelous example of what can be done even without the advantages
we now consider common.I made my last mechanism for a Durs Egg flintlock on the Friday before
the 2019 CLA Show In Lexington and that was it.
Bob Roller

Offline smart dog

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2021, 01:13:31 AM »
Hi Folks,
You are all very welcome and there will be more.  I will be adding some new parts to my tutorial "Understanding British Fowlers".  The additions will include complete photo essays of 3 new fowlers including the Mortimer for which the lock was made.  I'll be able to describe and document changes in styles going into the 19th century.  It will take me some time to complete all the additions because I won't have the barrel and mounts for the Mortimer gun until June.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline scottmc

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2021, 01:55:14 AM »
I can't say anything that anyone else hasn't said but I will say your knowledge of all the intricasies of gun building amaze me. I picked up on that when we had our hour long consultation at Dixons a couple of years ago.  Thank you for sharing that knowledge!
Remember Paoli!

Offline Clint

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2021, 04:16:14 AM »
The number and quality of today's locks is pretty impressive (interchangeable parts). The old locks were individually forged and filed by hand from iron, and the concentrated thought of the lock smiths building them. Some old locks are barely stuck together but many are virtual machines. The mortimer lock you have shown us is an excellent example of what human hands and a few tools are capable of. Rediscovering the secrets of lock geometry and construction is a wonderful adventure. A great lock to build from castings is the Probin flint lock from TRS. The casting set is a little bag of impossible looking parts that becomes a very cool lock.

Offline Stophel

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2021, 05:04:16 AM »
In order to make the much-vaunted one-position-sear, that full cock notch must be VERY deep.  It looks that way in the photo.  How would this very long let-off be countered?  Or would it?  The trigger pin would have to be spaced fairly far away from the sear bar ...farther than the sear bar is from the sear screw in order to "outrun" the sear lever/arm and speed that sear nose up as much as possible so that the trigger pull wouldn't take four minutes to let-off.  Am I thinking correctly on the mechanics of it?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:24:04 AM by Stophel »
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2021, 05:55:43 AM »
Notice the hook in the front. These hooks were mostly inlaid into the lockplate. Looking very closely it is difficult to tell even with a microscope.  Also notice how low the spring is mounted on the plate. This is important.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Curtis

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2021, 08:12:25 AM »
Wonderful tour Dave, thanks for showing us this!  Very nice lock.

Curtis
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline smart dog

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2021, 02:26:38 PM »
In order to make the much-vaunted one-position-sear, that full cock notch must be VERY deep.  It looks that way in the photo.  How would this very long let-off be countered?  Or would it?  The trigger pin would have to be spaced fairly far away from the sear bar ...farther than the sear bar is from the sear screw in order to "outrun" the sear lever/arm and speed that sear nose up as much as possible so that the trigger pull wouldn't take four minutes to let-off.  Am I thinking correctly on the mechanics of it?

Hi Chris,
Your physics are not theoretically off but you are over thinking it.  When I build a lock I file a nice sharp but shallow full cock notch.  It is always at least the depth of the thickness of the tip on the sear.  Then I assemble the lock and mark where the sear ends up on the plate at full cock.  Then I put the tumbler in the rest position and if the sear is pushed up, I file the underside of the tumbler until it is level with the mark on the plate.  If it drops lower, I don't worry about it because it will be held up by pressure from the trigger. Then I place the tumbler at half cock. If the sear is pushed up, I deepen the half cock notch. If it drops lower, I usually let the trigger hold it up as long as the sear has enough engagement in the notch to be safe.  If not, I have to start the process again by deepening the full cock notch and going from there. In practice, I almost never run into that situation.  It is always the reverse, the sear is pushed up.   The whole process is focused on having proper engagement at full cock that results in a crisp light trigger pull with no creep.  The real balancing act, however, is then making sure the lip of the half cock notch is at or below the radius depth of the full cock notch if the lock has no fly detent.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2021, 03:28:13 PM »
On the locks I made the sear was not shaped until it was functional in the half and full cock positions
and the fly-detent-intercepting cam was working.
  TRS has some good looking external flintlock parts but I think using the already too flimsy internal
parts as mould masters is not a good idea if the gun is to be shot a lot.There IS a reason so many of
these marvelous relics survive in nearly new or as new and that is they were NOT used or used very
little.Museums and private collections have a lot of them and probably these guns were symbols of
wealth.
Bob Roller

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2021, 03:57:24 PM »
 Well done, look forward to the series.

   Tim

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2021, 05:24:42 PM »
Dave, thank you for the photos and explanation of lock works. It was a small community of gunmakers and apparently they were all familiar with each others work. A question about triggers, were there any trigger springs that kept the trigger in contact with the sear that prevented a loose and floppy trigger?

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2021, 06:05:43 PM »
In order to make the much-vaunted one-position-sear, that full cock notch must be VERY deep.  It looks that way in the photo.  How would this very long let-off be countered?  Or would it?  The trigger pin would have to be spaced fairly far away from the sear bar ...farther than the sear bar is from the sear screw in order to "outrun" the sear lever/arm and speed that sear nose up as much as possible so that the trigger pull wouldn't take four minutes to let-off.  Am I thinking correctly on the mechanics of it?

Chris,

You are absolutely correct.  Having a very deep full cock notch isn't a good thing.  A fly solves the problem. 

Jim

Jim

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2021, 06:12:16 PM »
This is a very nice lock and there are a myriad of details, functional and aesthetic, that make this special.  There are few commercial locks that come close to this.  In making a fine lock, there are so many details to consider.  99.99% of consumers don't understand or appreciate these.  Thanks for sharing, Dave.

All the best,
Jim

Offline ScottH

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2021, 07:27:23 PM »
Thank You Dave!
I agree with everyone else that this post is a wonderful opportunity to study and learn from. I'm sure I will be visiting this again and looking and reading about this fine lock.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2021, 07:37:14 PM »
Dave, thank you for the photos and explanation of lock works. It was a small community of gunmakers and apparently they were all familiar with each others work. A question about triggers, were there any trigger springs that kept the trigger in contact with the sear that prevented a loose and floppy trigger?
Single triggers with no set capability can be lightly uploaded with a small spring and
this is standard on high end English percussion target rifles. The spring allows the
release bar to  follow the sear in all positions.
Bob Roller

Offline Clowdis

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2021, 11:33:40 PM »
Dave,
Can we get a close up of the hook in the front of the lockplate? Does it work with a pin or a screw head?

Offline smart dog

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Re: Tour of a Fine English Lock
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2021, 01:06:07 AM »
Dave,
Can we get a close up of the hook in the front of the lockplate? Does it work with a pin or a screw head?

Sure thing Clowdis.







"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."